Job Discussion Forums

[YellowHair]

Thanks for the advice HKT.

As is now, my fiance and I have put back a little coin in case I do have to pay because of not giving proper notice.

I would prefer not having to dig into that stash. However, we have discussed it as an option due that a PNET position's pay would be more than worth it in the long run.

Also, if I am not mistaken, I believe I remember reading something from the information packet (obtained at the PNET interview or on other various websites) that it is possible to request 2 months advancement of salary under a PNET school, to be paid back over installments of the first 6 months of the contract. (anyone else hear of this?) If needs be, I suppose I could try my hands at getting this option (if it exists). I have heard of a coworker's husband who exercised this option on an intial contract but he does not work in the education sector (mobile-tele. tech.)

Then again it would be nice if I didn't have to do either. However, as you said, I would need to be dreaming.

I do not think it is wise of me to give notice now, though. This is mainly because my current employer also provides me with my current housing. That said, if I had to wait a bit longer than the two months to receive an offer, I would officially be living out of a few suitcases (or forced to ask my fiance's folks for short-term lodging in their abode.)

Sounds like I am in a bit of a pickle till the scheme can get the ball rolling. Until then I will be looking at different flats in different areas so that I can know which one is best depending on what offer I get from them. I will be sure to keep the forum updated on this fantastic experience so far and hope that all works out for the best.

[Serious_Fun]

[Smoog]

[hkteach]

Very droll Smoog!

As far as the advance on salary - you can apply to your school for two months' salary to be repaid over a specified time (6 months I think) It used to be over 12 months, but the time was reduced a couple of years ago.
It's a 'once-only' offer, only available at start of first contract.

[Special Report]

I wrote this article about the Native English Teacher Scheme. It is meant to be informative and help you decide whether you would like to be a teacher in the Primary or Secondary Native English Teacher Scheme.

Do You Want to Set Yourself in this Situation?

This is the ultimate question of a mature teacher. Do you want to set yourself in this situation? I�ll outline most of the things that a Primary Native English Teacher will go through in the Primary Native English Teacher Scheme in Hong Kong. And, remember the control you will have and probably the most control you will ever have in the scheme with be this question: Do I want to set myself in this situation?

There are things that others haven�t told you in their writings about the NET Scheme in Hong Kong. I don�t know why. Selective memory, only the teachers with good experiences have written or the writers have just simply forgotten to mention some really important facts in making a decision in which to apply and work in the NET Scheme in Hong Kong.

The interviewers!! They were nice, weren�t they? What you don�t know is that the attrition rates of PNET and SNET teachers are: 2006: PNET: 32%, SNET: 25 %; 2005: PNET :46%, SNET 53%; 2004: Started keeping statistics because so many were leaving. (South China Morning Post) These are not the statistics I heard, but I�ll go with the newspaper.) The statistics are not yet out this year, but these are the Employment and Manpower Bureau (EMB) statistics. So, with so many teachers leaving, they need to recruit teachers! They�d better be nice because all the teachers in the scheme are leaving at the end of their contracts. And, to add to this, the interviewers just interview. That is their job as they know it. Other ministries, schools and people (Supervisory Teachers (SET), English Panel Chairs (EPC) etc.) are responsible for their part with no coordination. What the interviewers say in the interview is only their word for it; it does not count further than that!

Ask yourself the question: Do I want to set myself in this situation?

The article about �___ White� is completely true. I was here during that time. I had dealings with some of the support people helping her. (Please read the pre-existing article: �What about this?� posted earlier.) The poor teacher was told by doctors after returning to Canada, not to work for one year!

Ask yourself the question: Do I want to set myself in this situation?

You think the number of years that you submit as bona fide years of educational experience will be counted at face value?? Surprise, surprise! No matter how many years you will submit, you will not receive them all. Teachers with bona fide (indisputable) 20 + experience, in educational systems in other countries, have been given many years less. A contract was signed, the EMB did not honour the number of years after the teacher had started teaching, ie. in October. Committed !! Lawyers were threatened, yet nothing done!! I had 8 years teaching in Korea in the institutes. I was given 2 years, 11 months and the small print says only full years count. One of those years was August 31, 1995 to August 28, 1996. What separated the dates was a weekend! Nope, not a full year! Down to two years. Eg. 2: Bona fide 17 years educational experience in Australia was �squashed� to 12 years.
Also, Masters degrees and Ph.d.�s make no difference. There is no credit or pay increase for extra education.

The question is: Do I want to set myself in this situation?

It�s a school based curriculum in Hong Kong. Translation: school curriculum vary greatly from one school to the next. Fine you say? The EMB has very little power. This is the Ministry of Education with only the �power� to recommend. The real power is in the hands of the principal or the supervisor for the governing body of the school. The principal has almost unlimited power. Some use discretion, others become �power drunk�. Principals turn the schools into �fiefdoms� for what they feel is good for the school, students, parents or themselves.

Do I want to set myself in this situation?

You might come as a teaching couple. There is no consideration as to placing the two of you close together. Travel time is easily an hour each way. Add two hours to your daily schedule. You�ll be traveling much, much longer than you probably thought on really crowded public transit.

Do I want to set myself in this situation?

Schools are making and changing their schedules for longer and longer hours. The schools will have 10-12 hour days if you don�t speak up at the beginning and will expect you to work the same. The Hong Kong thinking is two fold: the more hours I work, the better teacher I am (or appear), and �I need to be seen pulling my weight so others will not complain.�

Do I want to set myself in this situation?

Don�t think you will have time for hobbies. You MIGHT have time for one hobby. After working, there isn�t much energy left inside of you for more.

Question: Do I want to put myself into this situation?

You, a PNET or SNET will be between two employers. The two employers are the EMB and the other is the school where you work. The two employers want different things. The EMB, who hired you (the interviewers), want the PNET/SNET as an �agent of change�. To provide new and relevant teaching pedagogy to the Local English Teachers (LETs). This is what they advertise for and what the advertisement tries to promote.

What the school wants is a PNET or SNET that will fit into their school culture and do what they are told. The school is not used to opinions: �After all, we are all going in the same direction!� This is the type of thinking. And, the school is the one that signs the contract, the body that can terminate the contract within one month, the one that decides if they would like to renew your contract and probably most importantly whether they will give a gratuity at the end of the contract of 15% of your base salary. These plus a reference letter can be �held over your head� during the duration of the contract.

The mature question is: Do I want to set myself in this situation?

I personally felt like an �educational mercenary�. The EMB hired me to do a job that they can�t do, so they pumped me full of �agent of change� rhetoric and then put me into the schools.

With the school at the beginning, I used to feel a free hand in doing new things, making suggestions etc. and even initiating things on my own. . Now, (schools change and with a new principal, very much.) the principal is micromanaging me in the things he wants me to do. (Yes, he is a male principal) I�ve had a good rapport with him, but now I�m almost being told what to do. I am being told what to do!! (By the way, the term principal should really be changed to �principalcess� or Head Mistress; the number of primary principals is overwhelmingly female in Hong Kong.)

This is not what the EMB advertised!! I need to be very political and it takes a lot of energy politically working around 2 employers and the wants of both.

Question: Do I want to place myself in this situation?

Wow!! Look at the money I will make!!

The Hong Kong dollar is pegged to the US dollar. The US is the largest market for Hong Kong products. Since 2003, the Canadian dollar exchange rate has fallen from 4.9 to 7.1 Hong Kong dollars. Interpretation: It takes 7.1 Hong Kong dollars to buy 1 Canadian dollar, now. It used to take only $4.9Hk to buy $1.00 Cdn. That is 2.2 divided by 7! By my calculator that is 31.47 % loss in salary. The Australian dollar is also losing value: $6.5 Hk buys $1.00 Aus, now. I�m not sure what it was in 2003. (Please check www. Oanda.com ) Other Asian economy exchange rates are rising in value. The Hong Kong dollar value to other currencies is falling and badly! And, financial advisors see this as a continuing trend following a low and declining US dollar value.

Question: Do I want to place myself in this situation?

Just a note for Canadians: There is a �white paper� in Federal parliament that will make Canadians abroad pay Canadian percentage taxes!!!! That means that you will be paying your host countries taxes AND Canadian taxes. This will be for Canadian passport holders which is ALL of us!!! In essence, out taxes will no longer be based on residency but on citizenship (copied straight from the US!! But in the US, any money under $82,000 US is tax free. Not Canadians!!)

This is being prompted by Garth Turner, MP for Halton in Southern Ontario!!! This is an absolute outrage!! More information coming, but best to look up his telephone, fax number, email and address of his constituency office in Halton Region and Ottawa. Best to send your opinion in that order as a telephone call represents �x� number of dissatisfied constituents, a fax is �x� times 3, an email is �x� times ?, a letter represents �x� times ?, but much higher and the best of all is walking into his constituency office and telling him what you think.

Getting visas for teachers who would like to stay for a second contract or a third would be easy. You would think! Well, not so. There has been an ever increasing �Leave it to the last minute� attitude where Chinese schools don�t have a PNET or SNET before the summer holidays. The result is a mad scramble in August and September. Not only is there a very late problem of interviewing and organizing a PNET or SNET, but also there are two other factors. Who is here coming back to Hong Kong on their own without a contract to come to and the second is it takes time 3-6 weeks for a Visa to be processed.

Who do you think will wait for the Visa? The school and the PNET or SNET will wait, but the school wants the PNET or SNET working at the school. The PNET is working without a visa!!! The school expects it. Immigration won�t allow it and it is an offense here to work without a visa. And, the EMB only recognizes the start date of the employment visa as the first day they will pay. Several teachers have reported working for up to 6 weeks without pay!!! The EMB denies it!

Do I want to set myself in this situation??

The EMB is very disorganized, out of touch and SLOW! There have been innumerable accounts of teachers who were successful in their interviews in February and March (a few years ago when they did them that early!) but decided not to come to Hong Kong. The reason? The contracts weren�t sent out by the EMB until June!!! No one can plan their international life at that late stage especially if you have children and schools to find.

Do I want to set myself in this situation?

Job satisfaction is generally limited in the PNET scheme. In some cases, job satisfaction never arrives and getting the salary at the end of the month doesn�t make up for it. There are some exceptions, however. Generally speaking, job satisfaction as in other countries is periodic and you shouldn�t think of job satisfaction as an attraction.

Do I want to set myself in this situation?

The pedagogy of the schools is probably 50 years behind what is being taught in your home country. Rote learning, text book opening and closing at the end of each period, the local teachers marking piles and piles of books each day. Really! Unbelievable amounts of marking for them. It is brainless tedium for them, but they do it.

Do I want to set myself in this situation?

The students� parents are very powerful in Hong Kong education. In some, to most schools the administration has allowed the parents to have an office. What do they do there? I don�t know, but I think they think of ways to attack the administration and the teachers with complaints. In the school I teach in, when a complaint comes into the school from a parent, the teacher is hauled into the principal�s office and the complaint is put right at the teacher. Eg.1 �A parent thinks your teaching is too strict.� (The teacher has 30 years teaching experience.) Eg. 2 �You are yelling too much at the students. The parents think you yell too much!� The teacher has the worst behaved class in the school in a working class neighbourhood. The principal does not lead. He passes the criticism onto whomever, unedited!!

The latest is the school bus company that takes the children to and from school. This bus company has cancelled the contract with the school. Yes, the bus company initiated the cancellation! Why? Because the company was sick of dealing with the parents� complaints about the buses! So, the contract will end because the principal will not lead and take the criticism!

Do I want to set myself in this situation?

Teaching is filled with people all day. But in Hong Kong, PNETS and SNETS teach alone. Maybe for you, you have taught in your home country or you have taught in institutes in other Asian countries, but you have always taught with other foreigners on a day to day basis. The other foreigners have there own classes but are teaching at the same school and share a common teachers� room. Well, you teach alone in Hong Kong. One PNET and one SNET per school! Depending on the size of the school, 20-60 Chinese staff with an all student body anywhere from 300 to 1200 or more. The local teachers speak English and that is great, however after time, there is no �bandying around�, jokes to tell and stories to laugh at. That communication is so vital after awhile in a foreign culture. You are there, alone.

Do I want to set myself in this situation?

Class sizes are an issue. 40 students to a class (or just 2-3 less) is the norm for PNETs. I don�t know about SNETs. This is the issue between teachers, the Professional Teachers Union (PTU) and the EMB. It is not resolved and is on-going. I don�t know what the outcome will be. The PTU and teachers want 20-25 students per class, the EMB says there is no difference in teaching quality for students with smaller classes. You can see how far apart they are.

Do I want to set myself in this situation?

One of the things I noticed was the age of the other teachers when I arrived in the PNET Scheme. After teaching in other countries, the average age was 22 to maybe 30 or so. When I arrived here in Hong Kong, all the teachers seemed seasoned professionals from their home countries that had put in many, many years. My impression was that some of them had put in 30+ years in their home country and now wanted more money beyond their pension (double dip, so to speak). Others were retired and wanted to keep active. Others had children who had grown up and out of the house and it seemed like they used teaching in Hong Kong to get away from them. This was my initial impression. Since then, I think it is less pronounced. Or, I�ve aged! And, that is surely the truth! However, the teaching population seems much older.

Do I want to set myself in this situation?

Bringing your children to Hong Kong to attend primary or secondary school while you teach here is expensive! Someone with better figures on school tuition can say in more exact terms, but international schools charge between $5,000 -$8,000 Hk per month and the English School Foundation (ESF) schools charge more reasonably from $3,000 Hk + or - to about $5,000 Hk + or � a month in school fees. This does not include extras such as trips and other �essentials� that the parents are expected to pay. The EMB does give a �Special Allowance� which they say is for school expenses, but that is the housing allowance �gone taxable� with the inclusion of �school expenses�. After the rent, there isn�t much left for school fees.

Do I want to set myself in this situation?

Everyone seems to have an opinion here. Every teacher feels they have to say something on this issue and that issue and be �snarky� with others who don�t believe as they do. Be prepared to have others be negative and uncooperative at what you think is a �slam dunk�!

Do I want to set myself in this situation?

Try to make up your own mind. This is probably more difficult than you might think. You have probably read or thought that the teachers who wrote in are the ones with the bad schools and that is only what you will hear. Some truth to that! But, what is really �throwing� is that you get teachers writing in saying its good, and that those people are negative and complainers and can�t adapt or have brought it on themselves. These are the people who were parachuted into the good schools and have no idea what it is like to have to deal with such unreasonable requests, personality problems and the loneliness of teaching in the Hong Kong educational system.

Back to that question: Do I want to set myself in this situation?

There are some things that can be done, however. There are some positive things that a person can do to shield themselves from the outside environment.

The first and most powerful is to ask yourself: Do I want to set myself in this situation?

Second, the school to which you will be assigned is like a falling parachute. Some people land at good schools and others will not. From there, maintaining an open mind, looking for the positives and listening to the LETs and administrators and trying to be flexible as to how education is taught in Hong Kong are all good ideas.

The question one last time: Do I want to set myself in this situation?

This is a mature question and needs to be asked if you are attempting to teach here. Reason it out, decide what you want. Reading this will prepare you more fully to answer this all important question.