Job Discussion Forums

[burngirl]

Hi all,

I did a search but it seems as though more experienced people have been asking the questions so i'm not sure how relevant the responses are to me.

I am thinking of heading to Eastern Europe to get my CELTA this fall, and then hopefully find work in Hungary or Slovenia. Is this realistic, given that I do not have an EU passport? I'll have a B.A. in English when I go, so I'm hoping that a degree + CELTA will be enough to start.

[TwinCentre]

It will prove very difficult without an EU passport simply because it costs your potential employer more money and time to employ you, when there are hordes of Brits wanting to take the same job and can show an EU passport.

[spiral78]

I'm not sure about Slovenia or Hungary. But TwinCentre may be overly negative - most of the 'new' EU member states still offer legal working visas to North Americans. It may be a bit of hassle, but you're not likely to be competing against 'hordes' of Brits in either Slovenia or Hungary (it's different in Spain and Italy, for example). I think you should check the embassy websites for both countries and find out.

[TwinCentre]

Yes, it is true that they CAN get papers for you. It is true that it is a hassle. But that was not my point!

My point was, few places are going to be bothered to go through that process for workers who are so disposable and where there is such a high turn-over. They will just take a Brit. Perhaps the word 'hordes' was merely for effect. But it is a fact that there are enough Brits wanting to work there, with EU passports of course, to make them throw any CVs from non-EU passport holders straight into the bin.

I don't want to be overly negative. And I am not saying it is impossible. Just very unlikely.

I do however, after experiencing first hand so many North American CV's being left unread, want to save you alot of time, money and bother. By the way, I do work in Central/Eastern Europe and can see the situation 'from the ground' as it were.

[spiral78]

So are you saying that Slovenia and Hungary are very different from Poland or the Czech Rep, where high percentages of North Americans and Aussies are working legally?

Why would Hungarian and Slovenian employers be less likely to take on North Americans than these countries, unless they have different (more onerous - I don't think this is possible!) laws regarding hiring non-EU citizens?

Sorry, I am quite sure that a certified North American newbie with a professional, reliable appearance can get legal work in both countries.

And I'm one of those people who's always getting slammed for my 'negative' posts regarding working illegally in places where I KNOW North Americans can't get work permits, like Spain and Italy. I'm no starry-eyed newbie - I've been based full and part time in the Czech Rep and have had contacts in Central/Eastern Europe for ten solid years now.

[TwinCentre]

Yes, there are many North Americans working legally in Poland and the rest of Central Europre. That is because they were already here before joining the EU in 2004

And once again, you don't bother to read my post. Non-EU teachers can get papers. Yes they can. Yes they can. Yes they can. And after working in Italy, and Spain, I met many a North American working in those countires too! Yes they can. Yes they can.

Who will be bothered to go through the hassle to employ new non-EU teachers when EU teachers are so much easier to employ now? That was my point. Of course they are exeptions, the ones that make the rule..

I accuse you hereby of being overly positive:)

[spiral78]

Uh, no I'm not. Newbie teachers from North America are hired every day in the new EU member states. It's not rare.

[SueH]

I'm sure both of you guys are telling it like it is from your own experiences, which obviously differ a little, although I can't help thinking it may be a difference of emphasis. I suppose you'd both agree with a summary 'may be difficult'.

What neither of you mentioned is that a CV with a local address, contact number etc is likely to get a better response. As no school in europe will pay for any travel costs to get there perhaps plan an extended 'holiday' with the appropriate funds and do your search in situ. Would you both agree that might help?

[TwinCentre]

Yes Spiral, of course American Citizens are hired everyday in new EU countries. Did I say otherwise? My point was, for the last time, it will be difficult, and would decent schools who have loads of EU member applicants be bothered? No, and I can say that from first hand experience.

At the following institutions I have worked with in old and new EU countries: Linguarama, International House, British Council, Wall Street, I only have met Americans in EFL who seemed to have got papers themselves through marriage or family connections or were working illegally.

I doubt a local address on your CV would do any harm. Worth at try, but doubt it will come to much. Just to carify, I BELIEVE YOU CAN GET A JOB. But the pay will most likely be S*** and you will probably have to apply for 60 positions before you get one offer in Western EU and 30 before you get one offer in Central and Eastern EU countries.

[spiral78]

Sue, you're right that it's not at all common for decent schools to hire from abroad. You do need to be there. However, I'd be highly surprised if you had to interview 30 times to find a position, unless you've got an entirely unprofessional look.

Check the country forums for Poland, Hungary and the Czech Rep - it would be interesting to post a thread to find out how many North Americans are working with legal papers. I'm quite sure Slovenia will be similar in terms of ability of non-EU teachers to get legal work.

Acutally, I'm not speaking just from my personal experience, but I have been in contact with a number of language schools across Europe over the past ten years as a part of my work helping to find contacts for newbie teachers. EU citizens are preferred in many cases, but I can state emphatically that a professional, respectable-looking North American will be hired over a Brit in a New York second if that Brit happens to have a less professional look. The hassle involved in gaining legal papers is primarily endured by the teacher him/herself, in terms of standing in endless lineups, and good schools have mechanisms in place to institute the initial paperwork.

As for the Western EU countries, I also disagree with TwinCenters (who seems to be posting from Ohio - is that correct?). You won't interview 60 times to find a legal position - you'll NEVER find a legal position unless you marry a local or get hooked up with a company based in North America but operating abroad, or have the quals for one of those rare openings in an international school.

Anyway, enough of the argument.
Sue, you've got the right approach down, and I'm confident that you'll be able to find something suitable, and legal, in either of the countries you've mentioned.

Now, when I've got time to kill, I'll run polls on the above forums and count Americans working legally (at least get some subjective estimates).

[Mike_2007]

Spiral78 - Here's some info for Romania:

Well, I can't speak for the rest of Europe but I haven't met a single American teaching here in Romania in the three years I've been here.

The school I initially worked for wouldn't employ them even before Romania joined the EU because the teachers were technically hired and paid in the UK to avoid the whole work permit issue completely.

I've met plenty of Americans here involved in other activities but never one employed as a teacher. I'm not saying they don't exist, but the teachers I've met have been approximately 70% UK and 30% Irish Rep.

The teaching scene isn't very developed yet and the sample of teachers I'm talking about doesn't amount to more than maybe 15 or 20.

[naturegirl321]

[spiral78]

Interesting. Thanks for the info, Mike.

[spiral78]

Or get a position in an international school or a job at a business based outside of the EU.

Obviously every country has its own laws and they do vary. But, no kidding, it is really this strict in almost all situations.

Yes.

[spiral78]

Oh, and you don't necessarily have to marry a local, but an EU member citizen. Sorry, I'm being hasty here, I admit! And speaking generally. There are also sometimes ways to get temp permits if you qualify for student visas, depending on your country of origin.

For those details, it's best to check the Embassy websites, not to rely on general info on Daves - as you know