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james



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 44
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
S.J.

You are mistaken about the Juris Doctorate (J.D.) being a first degree. One may not commence a three-year course of J.D. study unless one first has a B.A. or a B.S. in the United States. In all, it normally takes seven years of satisfactory post-secondary study to qualify for a J.D.

A Bachelor of Laws degree (LLB) is a first degree in Canada, but it is no longer awarded in the in the United States. In years gone by, the LLB was a first degree in the United States, but law schools throughout the country stopped awarding it about forty years ago. If one wants a law degree now, one must first complete a B.A. or B.S., and then successfully complete three years of law school, before the Juris Doctorate will be awarded.

Cheers!
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cassava



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 175
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Canada is not a monolithic entity. It is divided into a number of provinces each of which has jurisdiction over its institutions of law. In most provinces, you get into law school only after obtaining a bachelor's degree. At law school, you work towards a LLB which normally takes three years.

Competition to get into law school is so fierce in some provinces that you are better off getting a graduate degree before applying.
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007



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Stephen Jones wrote:
Most European Universities award only Masters degrees. The Bachelor's is the equivalent of the High School leaving certificate so it is called the Baccalaureate.

In general in many European countries the Masters takes five years.

The term baccalaur�at refers to the diploma and the examinations themselves. It is comparable to British A-Levels, American SATs or ACTs, the Irish Leaving Certificate, Australia's Higher School Certificate and the German Abitur. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_France

The Bachelor in UK is equivalent of �License/Maitrise/Ingenieure� in France.
The Master/Mphi/MBA in UK is equivalent of �DEA/Diplome Ingenieure/ and �Doctorat� of France.
The DEA (equivalent of Master in UK) takes 2 to 3 years in France. The �Doctorat� in France takes 3 to 4 years.

Majority of British universities do not accept the �Doctorat� of France as an equivalent to PhD, probably the same in Canada.
Some UK universities accept only the �Doctorat 3eme cycle� as equivalent to PhD.

Master degree in UK takes 1 to 2 years for FT, and 2 to 3 years for PT.
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trapezius



Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 1670
Location: Land of Culture of Death & Destruction
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
The term baccalaur�at refers to the diploma and the examinations themselves. It is comparable to British A-Levels, American SATs or ACTs, the Irish Leaving Certificate, Australia's Higher School Certificate and the German Abitur.


All correct except for the SAT/ACT.

Contrary to what most people think, the SAT (and the ACT) is not a program of study, let alone a diploma or a certificate.

The US has no centralized high school program like the British A Levels or the French Baccalaureate or the German Abitur or the International Baccalaureate. Schools and school districts in the US administer their own exams and institute their own programs. There is no standardized school leaving certificate, and what you get is an "American High School Diploma", which is just a generic term.

The SAT/ACT are aptitude and subject tests required by nearly all US colleges/universities. > 90% specifically ask for the SAT, and the rest accept both. The score on the tests, along with other factors (high school courses, high school GPA, application essay, reference letters by school teachers) determine what colleges you can get into, and the SAT score is actually the 2nd or 3rd most important factor. First is always HS courses/GPA. And there is no pass or fail on those tests, and on the SAT, the score ranges from 400 to 1600 (blank test paper would result in 400), and the national average is 1000. There are no cut-offs as well for different colleges/universities. For example, those entering Harvard have an average of 1450, but having a 1550 is no guarantee of admission (if for example your HS GPA is 3 out of 4), and having a 1200 doesn't mean you won't be accepted, esp if you have a strong HS program behind you, amazing references, etc.
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Stephen Jones



Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2007 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
So in practice the JD is a bachelors in law but you need another degree before you can take it! Lovely!

To understand how the Bachelors came to mean a degree in England and the US and a school leaving certificate in most of the rest of Europe you need to mug up on the medieval trivium and quadrivium.

And we still haven't touched on "Buy one get one free" Oxbridge degrees.

007 is correct about France but Spain, Italy and Holland will of course be different.
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trapezius



Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 1670
Location: Land of Culture of Death & Destruction
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2007 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
So in practice the JD is a bachelors in law but you need another degree before you can take it! Lovely!


Same with the MD (Doctor of Medicine) in the US. It is a first degree in medicine, but you enter an MD program after doing a BA/BS.

But in the majority of the world, you go to medical school straight after high school, and are awarded an MBBS (Bachelor of Medicine, Bachelor of Surgery). But as far as content goes, it is more or less the same as with the MD. However MDs do get more hands on practice than MBBSs do. Either way, you are still a GP regardless of which one you have, unless you go for residency/specialization.

And in Canada, you go to medical school after a BA/BS, but the degree is still called MBBS (MBBCh in French)!

Edit:

And the MBA? Almost all people who have MBAs have gotten it without getting a BBA first. You can enter an MBA program with a BA/BS no matter what subject it is in. And most business schools don't even offer BBAs.
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