Job Discussion Forums

Stephen Jones · Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Posts: 4124

The main problem with the "I learnt the language like my students will' argument is that the speaker means he learnt the language the same way speakers of his own first language did.

A non-native teacher who has the same L1 as the students has advantages a native speaker doesn't. A non-native teacher with another L1 has all the disadvantages of the non-native teacher and of the native teacher.

Justin Trullinger · Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 7:08 pm Post subject:

Many aspects of language aquisition aren't really first language dependent.

Even those that are can generally be overcome by a serious professional.

Best,
Justin

PS- Ecuador is a funny place- check it out!

QatarChic · Joined: 06 May 2005 Posts: 445 Location: Qatar

I remember when I was working at an FE college back in the UK- 3 of my colleagues were NNS; Swedish, Chilean and Croatian. They were all highly competent ... I think that it all depends on their training and exposure to the language....on the other hand I have met other NNS EFL teachers whose level was lower than pre-int. It all depends...

william wallace · Joined: 14 May 2003 Posts: 2869 Location: in between

There are a few key reasons,but I think the over riding one is that ESL/EFL/ELT language teaching is superfluous, what with the massive disgruntled native-English degree holders unwilling to buckle-down at their local Wall Mart, they go abroad to teach English; thereby, giving the illusion that ESL/EFL/ELT/TEFL(et al) is becoming more professional out of sheer virtue.
You can, if you're accent is not too strong, and even if it is call it Western Irish,Southern Australian etc...LIE! Trust me, I was in the academic/scholarly game for years...Just give your students the best you have !

I've met sub Band 7 IELTS(L2,obviously) English speakers in Thailand, China,Vietnam, Philippines - I highly doubt these are exceptions; You can feed the industry initiators by picking up a CELTA or DELTA to ease your mind, but biases are irrational emotions and will exist through the straitest of logic.
Best of luck

oreads · Joined: 16 May 2007 Posts: 7

Sorry for not getting back sooner Smile

So, basically ELT is like any other types of business? It's about what's hot in the market?

Or... is it like what George Braine wrote for Nonnative English Speakers in TESOL (NNEST) Caucus that "many administrators and teachers appear to view ELT as the last domain of the NS, to be defended at any cost"?

oreads · Joined: 16 May 2007 Posts: 7

[quote]I taught in Jakarta for a year and had about half a dozen Indonesian co-teachers. They all spoke English well - for non-native speakers, that is. There's no way I would say that any of them spoke "like natives using idioms and such" . They weren't even close.

I admit that it is not easy to find an English teacher with "perfect spoken English" in a non-English speaking country. What I said about my Indonesian colleagues being able to speak English like natives may have sounded superfluous. I work as an hourly paid teacher in one of the biggest English language schools in Indonesia. And the school is quite strict on the teachers' fluency. They wouldn't hire a non-native teacher with so-so fluency and thick local accent.

william wallace · Joined: 14 May 2003 Posts: 2869 Location: in between

Too bad you weren't trying to find work in ESL's golden years(around 1975-1990), and a real pity that you've gotten so proficient in English as a second language, and yet you're getting the cold shoulder - I'd say it just goes to show you that ESL is full of_____! Try China, though you'll still be up against that stigma;however, you will find work.I came across poor foreign speakers of English in Thailand as well, so if you have a TOEFL or IELTS score submit it with your applications. If you're Band 7+ - lie, and say you're from a native English country,or had studied there; it's best to do that in the country of choice.
Best of luck