Job Discussion Forums

[ls650]

[Samantha]

Killer bees trump scorpions!

[MELEE]

I've been living in Mexico for more than 9 years and I've been a student of Latin America much longer than that. I'm not at all surprised by JohnnyT's story.

Why? I actually looked into working in Aguascalientes when I first came to Mexico. I decided against it, because the descriptions I found of the society reminded very much of my experiences in Cuenca, Ecuador. People have close knit-family and colegio based social groups that they are basically born into and stay in for life. It can be very hard for a newcomer in those situations. I know because I grew up in a very similar situation in the USA. When I graduated from high school, in my class of 180 students, 90 had started kindergarten in that school district. I was one of them. When I think back to how we treated new kids in elementary school, my stomach churns. I wonder why the adults in our lives didn't do more to stop it?

Life in any foreign country has its ups and downs--some people thrive on ups and downs, others don't. Life abroad is not for everybody, and like LS said, life is Mexico is not for everyone, even among those who could live abroad.

I live in a part of Mexico that while, far from the border, is deeply intertwined with the US. Nearly every household have members living in the US. Many people want to go to the US, not just out of desparation. A women who worked for me cleaning several years ago was making end meet here, but her son wanted a Nintendo, a bigger TV, Cool tennis shoes. So she left her children with her sister and headed north. I couldn't possibly keep track of the number of times people have asked me why I'm here, when they are all trying to get there. Mexico and the US have an extrodinarily complicated relationship. And it's hard for people to process and synthesize all those emotions, especially in quick unexpected interactions with a foreigner in their community. I had a guy get really nasty with me the other day. I imagine he was from one of the surrounding communities, he obviously didn't know the city well. While we don't have beautiful colonial buildings, we do have narrow colonial streets, most of which are one way. But there is one stretch of one just outside of the centro that is two way for two blocks--because there's just no other way to get in and out of that part of town. It's supposed to be no parking, but people are ALWAYS parked on it (which is one of those things, that you could either bitch about of just accept and get on with your life ) So you have to stop and let cars come throw, sometimes you even have to back up half a block. So I was saying, I stopped on this street to let this guy come through. He had a big-obviously brought down from the US, SUV, and was dressed in the style of the surrounding villages, He comes straight at me, not going over to the other side once he's cleared the parked car, and I'm like what's your deal, then he finally pulls to the side and as he passed, just inches from me--the street is just wide enough for his truck and my truck--he shouts(really nastily) Vas en sentido contrario (you're going the wrong way) as he drove by. His reaction was way to strong--first off because he was wrong, he obvioulsy doesn't know the city well, it's clearly marked two way there. But I think if it had been my husband driving, he would have said, Hey, buddy, you're going the wrong way. in a lot friendlier manner. I'm sure Damm gringa who does she think she is coming here, people treated me bad when I was in her country, bla bla bla, was in his head. There is just so much cultural baggage. It doesn't matter if you are from Canada, England, Germany, where ever, in those types of circumstances, because they are instantaneous chance encounters. The person sees white and thinks American.
Luckily, most the people in my life have taken the time to get to know me. The vast majority of my day to day encounters with Mexicans are pleasent. But I've also worked with teachers who say the vast majority of their day to day encounters are unpleasent, stories very similar to Johnny's and I'm talking about people living in the same city as me. Some people just don't jive with Mexico. I'm sorry about your lease and job that didn't allow him to pack it in after six months.

[lisa1968]

I, as well, appreciate people sticking it out and trying to make the best of a difficult situation. But, honestly, (and MELEE you may know more about this), are you willing to let your little girl be humiliated daily for 12 months because you are afraid to back out of a lease or a teaching contract, that is honestly not making you ends meat!!

There are, or in the poster's case, WERE options. And it is sad for me that he will go to the States and not recommend Mexico based on his limited experience in Aguascalientes. Hopefully he will take his own advice for Mexicans, and not be so close minded, and realize that he made a poor choice for his family.

Leases and contracts are not as important as the mental health of your wife and family, I don't care how responsible and commited you are.

[NinaNina]

What a fascinating thread. I appreciate the candor. I'd just like to share the experiences of my red-headed (super tall, super skinny, super white) husband and my red-headed baby in Oaxaca and other parts of Mexico.

They get noticed. A couple times, when my husband went for a run, crowds gathered, chanting "Rojo! Rojo! Rojo!" He loved it, but he's a glutton for attention. Except when that same red hair was the target for many, many cascarones at a party in the zocalo.

On buses, people touch the baby's red hair, which is supposed to be lucky. Some people asked me if it was natural.

We've gotten some stares and some laughs, but if we smile and engage, I have found that the vibe is friendlier than I first perceived. Many Mexicanos like to tease and, to do so, focus on an obvious physical "attribute", hence my being called "La Chinita" everywhere.

We were recently at the Mexican consulate in Portland, Oregon, and I got that old feeling again, of being so giantly tall and white, and I felt sheepish. I thought, "Well, I best get used to it now, because we're about to move back." Then, a mama gave my pelerojo baby an apple and I remembered that feeling, too, of receiving small gifts from someone because we seemed different and, probably, confused.

For the record, we lived in Oaxaca prior to latest wave of anti-immigrant vitriol going on in the U.S., so I am wondering if we'll encounter a little more trouble this round in Mexico.

[MELEE]

[El Gallo]

In my three years in Chiapas, almost all Mexicans have been polite enough to keep their racism to themselves. The only real apparent racism here is toward the indigenous. No one, other than in a bank and pharmacy (one time each) has acted racist but the people are less friendly now because of Washington politics. I have been called gringo, guero and gobacho but jokingly.

I agree with Johnny T that the culture is very frustrating for a gringo who doesn't realize that ma�ana doesn't really mean tomorrow or "ahorita" doesn't mean now or, in many cases, not even a little while.
.
People anywhere who don't do what they say they are going to do annoy me. The adherence to this basic common courtesy is not a priority in the Mexican culture so I accept it now along with the other good and bad.

[veroax]

when i first came to mexico, i had to go to oaxaca city to submit the papers for my FM3. walking out of the station i asked about the first person i saw for directions to the immigration office. he was on his way to work, but insisted on walking me all the way there-- probably about a ten minute walk. on the way he told me about his time in the US, and said that he was glad to help a foreigner because many people up north had helped him. over a year and a half later, i've had many similar experiences and i've been lucky enough to make some great friends.

however, i have also had to get used to shouts from passing cars and all manner of other unsavories. i was once aggressively denied entrance to a bus when i was on my way to work. he just pointed to the door and shouted NO! i guess i'd have to agree with what was said about life here being full of 'ups and downs.'

it probably goes without saying, but i do think that one's degree of spanish proficiency will have a huge impact. i find that many people start off with a scowl, but quickly let their guard down once you chat for a bit.

incidentally, i'm not among those that are leaving. but i thank them for the input they've shared on the board.

[Phil_K]

The honesty expressed in this thread would be a good reference for anyone visiting the forum that is thinking of coming to Mexico. I have to agree with just about everything that's been said. I would love to go some place that I really want to be. Before meeting my (Mexican) wife, the reason for being here, I always dreamed of living in France. I love the country and culture and am sure I could be happy there for the rest of my days.

I also often have misgivings about Mexico (I live in the great metropolis) and the people. They seem a paradox, at once polite (all those "con permisos") and ignorant (line-jumping, noisy neighbors). They don't have a clue about organization (good oxymoron: Mexican organization) and seem to love making simple things complicated. However, I have tried to adapt and immerse myself in self-improvement rather than complain about other. The strange thing is, even my wife who said she couldn't see herself leaving D.F., let alone Mexico, has brought up the subject of moving to another country. Not too seriously I think, there is the family thing; I don't believe she could be happy away from her family. Also, I think after nearly six years, I have at least some of Mexico in my blood. Being here, I am able to be the person I really am and in general people have a lot of respect for hard-working foreigners who try to integrate.

There is one thing I know, the thought of going back to England frightens me!!!

Try telling that to a Mexican!

[Guy Courchesne]

JohnnyT, I am sorry to hear about your negative experiences in Mexico...haven't seen you in a year when you spoke with great eagerness about the move to Aguascalientes. I hope you can come away from Mexico with something positive in the end.

I don't think I'll ever leave this place...Mexico's got me. I'd consider another city (I guess not Aguascalientes!) maybe. I just can't see being back in Canada...not enough chaos.

To those souls soon departing, I'm wondering if you'll be looking to connect to the Mexican community back where you're from? Each time I go home for a visit, I feel lost unless I'm hearing or speaking Spanish to someone, or looking for the impossible such as an authentic taco...

[dixie]

Currently I cannot see myself leaving Mexico..but if the day ever does come, I'm quite certain it won't be to go back to Canada. Simply to another part of the world that would offer me the chance to live and experience something different.

MELEE...I too am always asked why I'm here, why I didn't stay in Canada. I have no satisfactory answer to that other than I love what mexico is, despite the frustrations of some of the aspects. I complain and move on, I'm certianly the last person who is going to change the way of things here!

Had I stayed in Canada, I would be making a LOT more money and benefits, and would have a lot more support and resources. HOwever, every day the only thing I would be thinking about is how much I want to pack a suitcase, grab the dog and leave, live elsewhere. Money and resources don't compare to simply daily happiness.

Making choices to return home, even if only shortly, are often difficult as well for those of us who are faced with making them. My father suddenly had to have a triple by-pass in the beginning of March. Went to the dr's for tests the beginning of the week because of breathing issues, and was in surgery that Friday. I never went home. My responsibilities here where the reason why (thankfully, I have fabulous parents and they too were telling me not to, that it was all going to work out. And it did. He's all ready back out there hitting golf balls!) But the point is that despite our love and devotion to our families, we can still get overwhelmed by the priorities of our own lives and the responsibilities we have to them. And whatever the decision made is, it's never done lightly. Nor does it mean that it's the right one, but at the time it seems to be.

[chola]

I left last August after spending a year in Mexico. I was fortunate enough to be able to travel before I left and felt that I had an overall good time. My original plan was to stay just for a year. Esentially, it was a good year, however, financially, it was difficult. I made friends, enjoyed the culture, improved my Spanish despite teaching huge numbers of English hours and felt I contacted the culture on more than a superficial level. My primary reason for returning was to make some money. Well, ironically, the joke was on me. I returned to face a bleak employment situation, ended up living on Rsp money and got into debt and am still struggling. Teaching ESL/EFL here is a losing proposition....a lot of highly qualified people and political bueracracy to contend with. I'd love to return to Mexico but don't want to have to eek out a living like I did; it was simply too much, The only time I made any decent money was when I was teaching up to 50 hours a week and we all know that is a killer. Not a day goes by that I don't think about some aspect of Mexico, be it the fresh fruit with chili and lime, the annoying buses and smog, the wonderful vibrancy of living in such a complex culture and tacos!!!!! God I could kill for a al Pastor!. But, I'm here until I can figure out a way to make my qualifications work better for me. I hope everyone returning home has a smoothe re-entry and finds success. Como Mexico, no hay dos!

[Johnny T.]

Thanks MELEE for your astute description of Aguascalientes society. I feel that that's exactly what we were up against. People with very large, very strong, very Catholic family connections. My one other Canadian friend here in Ags. has told me that people have both indicated and told him to his face that we are somehow inferior because we come from families that are not so close-knit or are not Catholic. The other "colegio old-boys club" network that MELEE mentioned is also very much alive and well here if looking through the innumerable Society Magazines and Sociey pages in every Ags. newspaper is any indication. Someone once told me that it is mainly the Mexican middle and upper classes that are so anti-American, and that has proved to be true recently when anyone of those classes has asked me how I have enjoyed Aguascalientes. Hearing my reply that it has been difficult to be a foreigner because of the anti-foreign sentiments, there reply has never been "oh that is too bad" or "oh, we're sorry to hear that", but rather "Yes, that's true, we hate Americans here in Mexico, so you should have worn a T-shirt that said "No Soy Gringo!" I'm glad I didn't stoop that low.
To reply once again to lisa 1968, my daughter was stoic and brave enough not to inform us of any "daily humiliation" until just recently. Anyone who has kids in school will know that it is not an easy thing to keep taking your kids out of school and transferring them to another one when there are problems (especially here in Mexico and especially when one finds a decent Public school - which is unfortunately all that can be afforded on a teacher's salary).
One quick note to Samantha - you'll be happy to hear that there was one very rewarding thing that came out of our time in Mexico - you may recall that it was you who gave us advice on how to bring our very ancient (17 year old) dog into Mexico a year ago. I was very happy that we did because he died in our arms back in September. And now we have rescued a street dog whom we love very much and have done (I hope) everything correctly in order to take him back to Canada with us next week.

[Samantha]

I do remember... and want to wish you and your family safe travels, Johnny T. Your new guy will love Canada and as long as you have a current health certificate you should have no problems with his entry. They will probably be more concerned with why you were out of Canada so long. I got a good grilling about that last time I went back (that was quite some time ago now)...my Mexican hubby breezed right through and was told to have a nice vacation...meanwhile I am standing there answering peculiar questions as to what I had been doing away from Canada for so long. Go figure.

[ls650]