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Taishan
Joined: 30 Oct 2003
Posts: 110
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 Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 1:10 pm Post subject: away from the relgious for a moment |
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Please be aware that I am not against paid volunteering in the correct circumstances. Nor am I against Christian envolvement, unless with a real fundamentalist belief.
What I am concerned about is this,
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:: Program Cost
The cost of the program are as follows:
Global Volunteer Network - Application Fee: US $275.00 Dollars. The application fee covers administration, marketing, program information, and communication.
China Program Fee:
Cost for 1 month will be US $450.00.
Cost for 2 months will be US $500.00.
Cost for 3 months will be US $550.00.
Cost for 4 months will be US $600.00.
Cost for 5 months will be US $650.00.
Cost for 6 months will be US $700.00.
Cost for 9 months will be US $850.00.
Cost for 12 months will be US $1000.00.
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Yes this is actually what this 'Global Volunteer Network' http://www.volunteer.org.nz/china/
charge their volunteers!
These are the places they work:
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Yantai Jianwen College;
Yantai Asia-Pacific Foreign Language College;
Yantai Foreign Language College;
Yantai Huaxing English and Computer Training School;
Nanshan Bilingual School;
Yantai No.1 Middle School;
Yantai No.3 Middle School;
Yantai Development Zone Vocational Training School;
Yantai Agricultural School;
Yantai Yingjie Primary School;
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My point is that these schools can pay, but the volunteers pay for the 'experience'.
I can understand some rural areas in the North East needing volunteer FT's but not in this area! Also I suspect that there is a middle-man creaming some big profits. 
Worrying is if you went to Yantai you'd perhaps be told that your services would not be required as there are too many 'free' FT's. |
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struelle
Joined: 16 May 2003
Posts: 2372
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| The foreign teachers in these groups are supposed to be Christian, but it is stressed very heavily that they are not to be teaching and preaching in the classroom. What a teacher talks about on the public street corner at weekend english corner is entirely, entirely up to them. |
A good point. Regardless of what the belief is, it's not professional to use the classroom to promote it! The purpose of being in the class is to teach English to the students, and to do that job well!
There's a wide range of debate in the church about evangelizing in China, but most Christians would agree that the classroom is not the place to proselytize. It wouldn't make sense 'back home' for example, for someone to host and advertise a training session on computers and then talk about God instead. That would undermine the credibility of the teacher, even if the message was good.
On the other hand, so-called religious freedom in China is not really free, despite what the newspaper says - it's still kept under control by the state. There are myriads of state-propagated rules and restrictions on how to run the churches, and government spies even go to services. Chinese are not allowed to go to foreign church services. There is also vast persecution of local Christians.
Given this bogus religious freedom, it's understandable for those who feel justified to break laws if they want to reach others with their faith. A couple of key points, however: Most of the evangelizing takes places with locals, not foreigners. The underground church movement is huge, and foreign involvement is small. Secondly, evangelizing is not brainwashing. Everyone needs to have a choice whether to accept Christ or not. So if a teacher uses the classroom to proselytize and bang Bibles, that's not respecting the CHOICE nor the desire of the students.
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| I am a teacher, and a christian. I do not at all find these two professions to be incompatible. I find it not strange, but rather ordinary, that if someone believes in Christ, and demands an appropriate wage, they are labeled as a hypocrite. |
Likewise here. I'm no angel, but I try and live the faith out. Still, I don't see a problem with the money as long as it doesn't become the top priority. That can be said for any job. If you enjoy what you do and do it well, there's no need to feel guilty about earning money for it. The problems are mainly greed, desiring more, or the opposite - poverty consciousness (fear of going broke). The latter gets me, partly because that happened to me last summer.
Steve |
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NumberOneSon
Joined: 03 Jul 2003
Posts: 314
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 1:28 am Post subject: |
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| struelle wrote: |
There is also vast persecution of local Christians.
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Exactly what is the nature of this vast persecution?
Is is simply that Christians aren't allowed to behave
the same way they do in some western countries such
as the U.S.?
The reason I ask is that I know quite a few Chinese
Christians in the U.S. and they have never mentioned
any problems, so I wonder where all this persecution
is occurring and exactly what it entails.
I've even heard a lot of Christians in the U.S. claim
that Christians are "persecuted" in the U.S. when they
practically run the country.
So I just wonder what it takes for some of them to NOT
feel persecuted in a place like China where they obviously
don't have any claim to running the country (at least I
don't expect any Chinese judges to start posting the
10 commandments in their courtrooms any time soon). |
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arioch36
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 3589
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 10:04 am Post subject: |
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i don't think there is vast PERSECUTION. There is vast discrimination against Muslims and christians., or any true believer. The government has a de facto policy that while it is legal to believe in God, if anyone finds out, you will be denied good government jobs, etc. Christians live in fear (though they shouldn't) that someone will fine out. colleges keep lists of chriatian students and teachers.
In Xinjiang, for instance URumqi, the population is mostly "Muslim" ( I am not saying how faithful they are or are not). But the muslim citizens are denied decent government jobs, and all the "guanxi" that goes with it.
i know for a fact of native mainland Chinese (are your friends mainland or Taiwan/Hong Kong?) or are afraid that if anyone knows that they are Christian their father who is in the government might get in trouble. There is a lot of this.
Another problem in China is that there is a lot of bad bible teaching, as most Chinese "christians" don't even have a bible. There are a lot of cults, many "David Koresh" type leaders.
two years ago a man was arrested for smuggling 30,000 bibnles to what was really a large cult. Now bibles are legal to buy, so what was going on?.
There is no freedom of religion. You are "safe" going to a state approved church that teaches the bible in a way that the communist state dictates. So many people go to "underground churches" which are illegal. If you are discovered, someone who wants your job (and unemployment is high) can blacklist you. |
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NumberOneSon
Joined: 03 Jul 2003
Posts: 314
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2003 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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| arioch36 wrote: |
i don't think there is vast PERSECUTION. There is vast discrimination against Muslims and christians., or any true believer. The government has a de facto policy that while it is legal to believe in God, if anyone finds out, you will be denied good government jobs, etc. Christians live in fear (though they shouldn't) that someone will fine out. colleges keep lists of chriatian students and teachers.
In Xinjiang, for instance URumqi, the population is mostly "Muslim" ( I am not saying how faithful they are or are not). But the muslim citizens are denied decent government jobs, and all the "guanxi" that goes with it.
i know for a fact of native mainland Chinese (are your friends mainland or Taiwan/Hong Kong?) or are afraid that if anyone knows that they are Christian their father who is in the government might get in trouble. There is a lot of this.
Another problem in China is that there is a lot of bad bible teaching, as most Chinese "christians" don't even have a bible. There are a lot of cults, many "David Koresh" type leaders.
two years ago a man was arrested for smuggling 30,000 bibnles to what was really a large cult. Now bibles are legal to buy, so what was going on?.
There is no freedom of religion. You are "safe" going to a state approved church that teaches the bible in a way that the communist state dictates. So many people go to "underground churches" which are illegal. If you are discovered, someone who wants your job (and unemployment is high) can blacklist you. |
Well, my wife is a mainland Chinese Christian and so are many of
the people she associates with in the U.S. When I've asked her
about all the persecution, she denies that it happens and says she
has had no problems. Her mom is Buddhist and her dad is apparently
a non-believer. Some of her other relatives have government related
jobs, but don't seem concerned about her beliefs.
I've had kids in my classes cross themselves and call on Jesus or
God to help them and no one seems concerned, either. I have also
had students bring up religious topics and mention that they believed
in God or Jesus and I usually just change the topic. If it was such a
big problem to be Christian in China, why would they do that? I don't
think they are testing me. Some of them are just kids.
Now, something like Falun Gong would be a different matter, I'm sure.
That's a group that really gets the Chinese government riled, but
Christians really don't seem to matter much. I don't know about
the weird Christian cults, though. They might get more attention.
Anyway, it just seems odd to me that none of the mainland Chinese
Christians I have known seem concerned about this persecution; it
always seems that it's the Christians on the outside who are so
worried.
Personally, I find it refreshing to not see a megalithic
church on every street corner. Maybe that's what the outside
Christians really want; real estate and the huge financial and
political empires they have in other countries. (Can't imagine
why the Chinese government wouldn't like that!)
I'm sure there are a lot of weird Christian cults forming in China.
Ignorance and superstition seem to be rife in China (I can
remember all the weird folk cures for SARS going around last year
and I've met my share of UFO nuts, too). Frankly, the less of
this kind of stuff China has, the better it will be. The last thing
China needs is another source of weirdness.
As far as Bible smuggling goes, it does seem unusual that someone
would need to smuggle in something that's already here, right? So
why were they even doing that? If you want to feel persecuted,
breaking customs/import laws is certainly one way to do it.
Smuggling 30,000 DVD's into the U.S. is likely to get you in
trouble, too, so I just consider stopping Bible smuggling as
good law enforcement on the part of the Chinese. No reason
why Bible smuggling should be any different. Chinese Bible
publishers have to make a living, too. |
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arioch36
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 3589
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 7:47 am Post subject: |
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I was not saying that a mainland Chinese person living overseas should be afraid...but I have found that in China (other esat Asian countries/) they are conditioned to live/ act in fear.
Buddhism is not really considered as a religion. i know that I saying that that wrong, but it is considered harmless, a tourist draw. but they, as well as Christians and Muslims are extremely discriminated againsy by the government. This is quite quite real.
A lot of cultish stuff going around, a lot of poor teaching. But anyone who teaches the bible as truth (all of it) is usually going to be in a underground church. And these chinese do keep very secretive, as the government often acts against them. being in the state approved christian church won't get you arrested, but will stunt your career, etc.
yes, China, where instead a church on every street, they have several huge, usually empty banks on every street |
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