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sidjameson · Joined: 11 Jan 2004 Posts: 629 Location: osaka

In my writing classes every week I notice the same mistake of starting a new sentence like this. " I like sushi. And I like cake." or " I don't like English. But I have to study it."

Now I was taught that you could never start a sentence with and or but, but I know things have changed. It seems though as if Japanese high schools have gone a bit OTT on this as many of my students ALWAYS use these words to start a new sentence.

Has anybody else noticed this?

Then again, maybe things have changed that much that it is now the rule. Embarassed

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

They also think that writing a "because" clause is an actual sentence.

Don't let any of that get by. They see such stuff in novels and even in English textbooks (although the latter is more a case of showing students how a casual response in a conversation looks like). Tell them it's too casual for academic writing unless they are writing stories.

Don't lose much sleep over it, though. You won't stop all of them from doing it, and you may even make enemies with the Japanese teachers who believe all of the above is allowable.

furiousmilksheikali · Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:28 am Post subject:

It's okay to start a sentence with "and" or "but", depending upon the sentence of course. Sometimes it is useful and even the examples your students wrote could be completely correct, especially if the student was intending pathos, or bathos (I'm not sure which).

"English is like some evil torture that has been cooked up in a lab and is being forcefed to me by a cruel and severe martinet at this ridiculous self-important institution that has the gall to call itself a university. English is like some evil demon that keeps me up at night and sits on my chest squeezing the oxygen from my lungs. English is like some poisonous excreta that is jabbered out of the mouths of hollow-eyed zombies into classrooms of the living, slowly working its wicked magic in turning the rest of us into the same soulless automatons. And if this pestilence isn't stopped it will comtinue to grow like bacteria destroying and corrupting all in its wake and melting our brains just as surely as acid would. I don't like English.
But I must study it."

JonnyB61 · Joined: 30 Oct 2006 Posts: 216 Location: Japan

nonsmoker · Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 2:37 pm Post subject:

Never start a sentence with those words. You can leave out the 'and' at the beginning of the sentence completely or use a semi-colon to bridge it to the previous sentence. Instead of but, you can use words like still nonetheless, regardless, etc.

furiousmilksheikali · Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 3:29 pm Post subject:

nonsmoker · Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 3:31 pm Post subject:

gaijinalways · Joined: 29 Nov 2005 Posts: 2279

I would like it if one of my students wrote in a similar way, but maybe I am just biased.

See any difference?

furiousmilksheikali · Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:02 pm Post subject:

Yes. There is a difference to both. Nonsmoker thinks that the use of "but" is unnecessary but I would argue that the use of the word as a discourse marker more clearly or definitively expresses the dismissal of the previous opinion.

And gaijinalways' suggestion can be dismissed also. Punctuation informs the reader of the rhythm that the writer has intended his prose to be read in. Sure, I could have written the sentence the way that gaijinalways would have done. But I chose not to. And who is to say that that is wrong?

As with many other grammar rules people tie themselves up in knots trying to avoid writing in a way that seems more intuitive and more pleasing.

Philistines!

DNK · Joined: 22 Jan 2007 Posts: 236 Location: the South

I think the point he was trying to make is that it adds some feeling to the writing, and extra emphasis or sense of progression. It creates more of a flow and emotional sense to what would otherwise be a somewhat straightforward statement of fact. Here is a break, a change of direction or new point, and...

But it is his point to make. This is just how I understand and use these constructions.

furiousmilksheikali · Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:07 pm Post subject:

JaredW · Last edited by JaredW on Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:36 am; edited 1 time in total

DNK · Joined: 22 Jan 2007 Posts: 236 Location: the South

Why, thank you.

I agree on sentence variety, too. Beginning sentences this way shouldn't constitute most of your conjunction uses, or even a significant portion. It's a spice thing...

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

Kids that are just learning how to put together subject and verb, and who have terrible problems with singular and plural, should refrain from such discourse markers, IMO, sheik.

They need to learn the fundamentals before they can become Hemingways. We usually teach academic writing, not novel writing. If you do the latter, you must have pretty high level students, and you should make it clear to them the difference.

sidjameson · Joined: 11 Jan 2004 Posts: 629 Location: osaka

When I mark their writing I always let the examples that Furious gave go. I know that "and" and "but" can be used for effect. But lets be honest. How many times is it intentional? I am talking about sentences where it is clearly wrong to do so.

I go to this university. Because I want to be a teacher.

If this were written for effect the only one it would achieve would be to make the writer look a bit of a nob.