Job Discussion Forums

[kingmalka]

Greetings everybody

As a quick background, after high school here in Los Angeles I honestly felt that I wasn't quite ready for another 8 years of school. I thus acquired a position as iT for a game production company in Santa Monica, and have been saving money ever since. I am now 19 and ready to begin a new adventure and possibly life abroad.

I believe I have a fairly strong grasp of the English language, and I truly wish to help students communicate their thoughts, feelings and dreams by empowering them to use the tools of language to reach out and connect with other human beings -- truthfully, however, my passion for overseas teaching mainly derives from the opportunity to experience a completely new country and culture. I also feel the need to develop as a human being and member of society before returning to school.

My question for you kind folk is thus: I have already purchased a ticket to Israel to visit family in Tel Aviv (July 3rd-August 1st). It would clearly be quite convenient to remain in Israel and teach there (if at all possible), but I would honestly prefer to experience a culture I havn't already engaged with. Italy, Netherlands, France, possibly Spain -- I am intrigued by all. For one such as myself and current situation, what suggestions could you all offer as far as teaching/assisting to teach English without a professional degree? Is it hard getting work permits? Finding jobs? Where should I start? Must I be fluent in the home country's language? I'd love to hear of personal stories ... or any comments for that matter!

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Eagerly awaiting responses,

- David

[denise]

Getting a visa in an EU country is hard for Americans. And without a college degree, even if there are schools that don't require it, you'd be competing against candidates who do have degrees.

If the main appeal is travel, why not do just that? You said you've saved some money. Why not do a study abroad program or a volunteer program? If you truly do want to teach, you'll have many more prospects once you finish college.

And what's this about eight more years of school? Have you already decided on a PhD? It's fairly common to finish undergrad, take some time off (during which you can get a TEFL certificate to travel and teach) and then go back to graduate school.

d

[spiral78]

David, U.S. citizens are not eligible for legal working visas as language instructors in any of the countries you mention, even if you were 30 and had a Phd in TESL/TEFL or applied linguistics. Do you have some additional citizenship that allows you to work in the EU?

I think denise is right - why not save up and just travel for a while? You can get your feet wet abroad, go back to university, and then decide whether this is really a field you want to enter.

You see, while you could get a work permit for some of the 'new' EU member countries (Poland, Czech Rep, Hungary), you would still be competing with newbies who nearly all have at least 4-year degrees, and where British citizens are preferred - you'll really be at the very bottom of the food chain where jobs are concerned.

[naturegirl321]

As an American planning to immigrate to Europe in a couple years, here's my two cents. If you want to teach English, it's not necessary to speak the country's langauge. Yes, it's difficult to get a work visa. See the discussions on the Europe and Czech forums. Also, Western Europe is nearly impossible to work legally in, if you're not from an EU country or married to someone from them.

However, the more experience and training you have the better chances you have. My advice, keep studying, get experience. Also look and see if you can get citizenship from an EU country through your ancestors. Getting jobs beforehand may be difficult, usually the good ones are found in country through contacts.

YOu might want to start getting a TEFL cert. Should have at least 120 hours and 6 of teaching. Try to find one that helps you with job placement. I did mine at the Boland School in the Czech Republic, 148 hours and 8 of teaching. They also help with job placement.

However, eventually, you will need a degree in order to get better jobs.

One question, what do you mean by 8 more years of school? There are ways to graduate early. Summer school, getting out of classes through exams, taking more classes. I finished a five year degree in 3.5 years and saved time and money by doing this.

[kingmalka]

Thank you all for the replies.

It was mentioned that it is nearly impossible to work in western Europe without a working visa. If I dare ask, what are the dangers of working without a proper work visa? From my understanding, there are quite a few teachers my age working illegally in many different countries (in Asia as well).

As for returning to school and THEN looking for work ... I'd much rather work for a year THEN return to school. I just feel compelled to experience a life adventure before buckling down and getting a degree. Travel would suffice, but I simply don't have the dough to get by on my own for too long nor would I know where to go and/or what to do. I would much prefer to live in and experience a new country and culture while teaching English ... so that perhaps when I return to America I will have a greater appreciation for what I am doing and what I want to accomplish in school.

[spiral78]

The legal risks depend on the country. You're very unlikely to succeed in working illegally in the Netherlands or France, for example, whereas in Spain, many people do spend a gap year working under the table.

Here's a rundown of the issues you are facing, if you want to consider Spain, for instance.

1. If you are really on a financial shoestring, just don't go. Even a little bit of bad luck can be devastating if you haven't got the money to support yourself for at least a couple of months and you should ALWAYS have the resources to buy a plane ticket home.


2. The majority of newbie teachers in Europe fit this profile: they have a university degree and a TEFL certificate from an on-site training course that includes supervised teaching practice. Not having the degree (or business experience to offset the lack) you will seriously need a good certification to be at all competitive on the job market. You will also need to plan to present a highly professional, responsible, reliable appearance at all times to offset your youth and lack of other quals. No slopping around in jeans or coming in hung over - you just haven't got the margin to carry it off!

3. Risk acceptance: it is always possible that you will get into some inadvertent trouble, maybe simply through being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Consequences can be much more serious if you are technically illegal. Further, as an illegal worker you won't have the security of a job contract with benefits - you'll be paid on an hourly basis for work accomplished. This can be fine, and it can also be risky (again the financial cushion is vital).

I would suggest you read through the Spain forum for in-depth discussion of pros and cons of working illegally. Spain's a very popular destination for both EU and non-EU teachers and there's tons of information on the issue.

[Glenski]

FWIW,
The risks in Japan are as follows:

3 million yen fine (roughly US$30,000),
detention up to 23 days without a lawyer, and facing daily multiple grillings,
further imprisonment in a non-English-speaking jail,
deportation at your expense,
being blacklisted from returning to Japan for 5-10 years.

Yes, there are people working illegally around the world, including in Japan, but this is what they face if caught. The Japanese government has even set up an Internet "snitch site", so all it takes is pissing off someone (boss, co-worker, friend, girlfriend/boyfriend, anyone) who can report you.

[kingmalka]

Would it be safe to assume it would be IMPOSSIBLE for me to find work in France, Netherlands and Japan at this point?

As a figure to work with, after purchasing my plane ticket to Israel, I have roughly $6,000 USD I'd be comfortable investing in a "life experience/adventure before college". Hopefully something that would last summer to summer. Would I be able to get by with this in Spain (Madrid? Seville? Barcelona?) while looking for work? Italy perhaps? Bear in mind I really don't have a destination at this point and am 100% open to any suggestions or personal stories.

Perhaps I should be posting in the country-forums at question ... I just thought the general discussion forum would be best to hear of any personal adventures or even general advice for what someone my age could POSSIBLY do to find a job teaching English/living overseas.

[Glenski]

[spiral78]

Yes, Netherlands and France would be essentially impossible. Why don't you look into some sort of university program that includes study abroad? This can be a legal route into some of the countries you say you're interested in, would advance your education at the same time, and you'd be among others of your age, so you could compete on a more level playing field.

[The Great Toad]

the last guys were nice...

Ha ha Let me be blunt. Right I do wish I was 19 too so perhaps I am an ole crank but......

Anyone in Any Country will know you are a PUNK!

No one will hire you who is not desperate, dishonest or will take any English blabber off the plane. In short you will get burnt. I guess there is the off chance you could start selling your brain around a big Uni/ City get a nice rep and get paid 8 dollars an hour to chat with some business man or English Major... But, otherwise you are sure to be a mistreated in most any for-profit school. Do you think they would take you seriously?

If I was some old dope washed out ESL bum at some School and you came in working I would even feel indignant like you were a joke...

This is it as Frank would have it.... Do no feel hurt - in fact I would guess (hope) you are twice the adult I was at 19.... 19 funny... Wow just go to Asia, Thai/PI and volunteer ... maybe you could get a legit place... maybe but sans da 4 years I am doubting it...