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seanmcginty
Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 203
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 Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Nismo wrote: |
| seanmcginty wrote: |
| I love Japan, but I have to admit that it is an ugly country. The cities are grey and crowded, most of the traditional architecture has been obliterated and the natural beauty has been submersed in concrete. If I had to choose a holiday destination, Japan would rank pretty low on my list just for that. |
So is LA. And New York. And Seoul. Actually, you've just described any major city in the world.
The mountains in Fukushima were beautiful. Hokkaido in the summer is wonderful. Kyoto in the autumn was great. Almost anywhere in Kyushu is amazing anytime. Perhaps you and Alex Kerr just haven't been to enough places to appreciate it. 
I lived in Tokyo as a university student. It wasn't for me. I visited Osaka, too, and it was fun, but it was just like any other big city. You've got to get out of the city to appreciate the beauty of the country.
Japan doesn't need a tourist industry. It's not a major economical drive for the country. If you take away a tourist industry from some place like Hawaii, or Fiji, or the Philippines, you've just destroyed its economy. |
Hey, I lived in a small city in Japan for five years and have travelled the country extensively, including both rural and urban areas.
This is the problem. Its not just the cities that are ugly, the rural areas are just as bad. You've got giant highways everywhere, entire mountainsides covered in concrete retaining walls, shorelines and riverbanks plastered with asphalt and concrete, pachinko parlours in every small farming village, dams on every river, mountains being reduced to rubble to make landfill for artificial islands which are themselves eyesores.....the ugliness just never ends.
There are some exceptions here and there but they are just that - exceptions - and not the rule. |
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User N. Ame
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 222
Location: Kanto
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| seanmcginty wrote: |
Hey, I lived in a small city in Japan for five years and have travelled the country extensively, including both rural and urban areas.
This is the problem. Its not just the cities that are ugly, the rural areas are just as bad. You've got giant highways everywhere, entire mountainsides covered in concrete retaining walls, shorelines and riverbanks plastered with asphalt and concrete, pachinko parlours in every small farming village, dams on every river, mountains being reduced to rubble to make landfill for artificial islands which are themselves eyesores.....the ugliness just never ends.
There are some exceptions here and there but they are just that - exceptions - and not the rule. |
seanmc, you're not alone in the assessment. Whatever you think of Alex Kerr's diatribes on Japan's corrupt bureacracy (Dogs & Demons), his commentary on the decimation and paving over of Japan's environmental landscapes is hard to argue with. All of the things you mention above, I identify with, and I lived in one of Japan's most pretty scenic spots for 3 years.
To add to your list, how about the neverending maze of power lines. As an amatuer photographer, this was the first thing I noticed about Japan when I first arrived. Few of my hundreds of landscape shots are power-line free. Most other nations bury their lines. Even the great filmmaker Kurosawa once said (and this was back in the 50's) how increasingly difficult it was for him to shoot films in Japan because of man-made interferences. Add to this the fact that in most of Japan's indigenous, broad-leafed tree forests and and other vegetation has been stripped clean and replaced with the foreign cypress pine tree - which turns out to be a serious hay fever health issue in Japan. The only old growth forest I saw in Japan was on the UN protected island of Yakushima. I thought forest practises were bad in my native British Columbia, until I came to Japan.
The shinkansen ride from Hiroshima to Tokyo is one of the most depressing landscapes I've ever witnessed, especially the stretch from Osaka to Tokyo.
Yes, there are stunningly gorgeous pockets of beauty in Japan (especially in the national parts of Hokkaido, the Alps and Kyushu), but they are few and far between.
It's kind of ironic that despite Shinto's animistic reverence for nature, they've done very little to protect that heritage. There seems to be almost no serious parks infrastucture in Japan. All other first world nations have at least developed pretty good parks systems. In Japan, national parks seem like just another opportunity to sell omiyage and tour bus tickets. |
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nonsmoker
Joined: 20 Apr 2007
Posts: 352
Location: Exactly here and now.
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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| User N. Ame wrote: |
| seanmcginty wrote: |
Hey, I lived in a small city in Japan for five years and have travelled the country extensively, including both rural and urban areas.
This is the problem. Its not just the cities that are ugly, the rural areas are just as bad. You've got giant highways everywhere, entire mountainsides covered in concrete retaining walls, shorelines and riverbanks plastered with asphalt and concrete, pachinko parlours in every small farming village, dams on every river, mountains being reduced to rubble to make landfill for artificial islands which are themselves eyesores.....the ugliness just never ends.
There are some exceptions here and there but they are just that - exceptions - and not the rule. |
seanmc, you're not alone in the assessment. Whatever you think of Alex Kerr's diatribes on Japan's corrupt bureacracy (Dogs & Demons), his commentary on the decimation and paving over of Japan's environmental landscapes is hard to argue with. All of the things you mention above, I identify with, and I lived in one of Japan's most pretty scenic spots for 3 years.
To add to your list, how about the neverending maze of power lines. As an amatuer photographer, this was the first thing I noticed about Japan when I first arrived. Few of my hundreds of landscape shots are power-line free. Most other nations bury their lines. Even the great filmmaker Kurosawa once said (and this was back in the 50's) how increasingly difficult it was for him to shoot films in Japan because of man-made interferences. Add to this the fact that in most of Japan's indigenous, broad-leafed tree forests and and other vegetation has been stripped clean and replaced with the foreign cypress pine tree - which turns out to be a serious hay fever health issue in Japan. The only old growth forest I saw in Japan was on the UN protected island of Yakushima. I thought forest practises were bad in my native British Columbia, until I came to Japan.
The shinkansen ride from Hiroshima to Tokyo is one of the most depressing landscapes I've ever witnessed, especially the stretch from Osaka to Tokyo.
Yes, there are stunningly gorgeous pockets of beauty in Japan (especially in the national parts of Hokkaido, the Alps and Kyushu), but they are few and far between.
It's kind of ironic that despite Shinto's animistic reverence for nature, they've done very little to protect that heritage. There seems to be almost no serious parks infrastucture in Japan. All other first world nations have at least developed pretty good parks systems. In Japan, national parks seem like just another opportunity to sell omiyage and tour bus tickets. |
I'm just wondering how the Kii penninsula (south of Osaka) looks like as far as vegetation goes. Has it been stripped of it's natural beauty too? I looked it up on Google Earth and it looks pretty green, but you can never tell unless you see it firsthand. Thanks. |
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seanmcginty
Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 203
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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The Kii Peninsula isn't too bad, I've taken train rides through some rural parts of Wakayama that were quite attractive.
User N. Ame, those are good points too. The power lines are everywhere and ruined many of my photos too (always a challenge to get the right angle to screen them out while at the same time getting enough of whatever you wanted a picture of in the shot), though in fairness as a BC native you may have noticed that a lot of powerlines there aren't buried, even in Victoria. I remember Kerr taking Japan to task for that in his book. I agred with him completely at the time I read it, but I was recently told that it costs about 10 times as much to bury power lines as it does to put them on poles, which is why Vancouver Island hardly buries any of them.
That asideI live in British Columbia now and there is just no comparing the two as far as natural beauty goes. Not that I think BC is better than Japan, each place has its good and bad points, but even the cities in BC are often more attractive than the Japanese countryside.
Its kind of sad because I do have memories of a lot of beautiful things in Japan. Like there were some mountains near my old place that I liked to go hiking at and there were some nice forests with a variety of trees and I always thought to myself "I wish there were more places like this."
My most depressing memory though was of a ferry ride across the Inland Sea. It was almost apocalyptic. They've got all these beautiful little islands nestled here and there majestically bursting above the surface of the water. Only half of them are being completely levelled, presumably in order to make more landfill for more useless artificial islands. It just sickened me to look at it, absolutely awful.
It would be a stretch to say the whole country is ugly, as pointed out above there are some beautiful places tucked here and there. But as it relates to tourism, this isn't much help because you have to really seek those places out, which most tourists only in the country for a week or two wouldn't have the knowledge or time to do. So they are stuck with the ugly cities and ugly parts of the rural areas. |
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king kakipi
Joined: 16 Feb 2004
Posts: 353
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 1:07 am Post subject: |
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Due to your ancestery Jared, I forgive you.
Nismo; I am not suprised that there is some confusion.
My J (sorry codeials!) mother-in-law sent us a parcel from J to Oz. After it hadn't come I jokingly said to my wife "maybe your mum wrote 'Austria' not 'Australia'". When we eventually got it, it had a rubber stamp mark on it saying "wrongly delivered to Austria; try Australia" on it........Good on Austrian Post I say! (and the m-i-l STILL refused to believe she had written Austria on it..............................!) |
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matador
Joined: 07 Mar 2003
Posts: 281
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 2:39 am Post subject: |
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Did you see the front page of the Daily Yomiuri today? Apparently, it has been learned that....a new high tech guide may be introduced to encourage more tourists to come to Okinawa. A special group of government officials and intellectuals will be meeting to study this in the summer.
Q1. Does this mean anything outside of the groups of grey-suited egg-heads who love this kind of thing?
Q2. Why on earth is this front page news?
Q3. If you were a tourist coming to Japan, how likely would you be to visit Okinawa?
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seanmcginty
Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 203
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 5:10 am Post subject: |
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| Typical stupidity. Okinawa is a beautiful place with fantastic beaches and an interesting history that should sell itself. But instead of, say, spending a few bucks to clean up the environment or something useful they go and spend it on some stupid useless gimmick. |
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gaijinalways
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 2279
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 6:22 am Post subject: |
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| Okinawa is nice, with people generally being a lot more easier going than farther up North. Beaches, some plantations, and castles that are more Chinese/polyonesian than Japanese looking. There is also the matter of the bases, though. |
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JaredW
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 105
Location: teaching high school in Sacramento, CA, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:34 am Post subject: |
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| gaijinalways wrote: |
| Okinawa is nice, with people generally being a lot more easier going than farther up North. Beaches, some plantations, and castles that are more Chinese/polyonesian than Japanese looking. There is also the matter of the bases, though. |
Don't forget the Okinawa soba and the Spam musubi. I live in Hawaii and Okinawa, and I felt that the atmosphere and personality of both islands were very similar. The people on both islands are very open and humble.
Has anyone made it down to Miyakanojo (sp) or Iriomote and can tell us some good things about those places. |
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matador
Joined: 07 Mar 2003
Posts: 281
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:55 am Post subject: |
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| JaredW, classic Palin photo. Good man, well done! Good vibes are winging their way to you on this windy evening.... I raise my glass of GnT to you... |
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kdynamic
Joined: 05 Nov 2005
Posts: 562
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| JaredW wrote: |
Has anyone made it down to Miyakanojo (sp) or Iriomote and can tell us some good things about those places. |
Yes. The whole Yaeyama chain is awesome. As is Okinawa-honto (IMHO). Okinawa is a great tourist destination - for someone already in Japan. Otherwise, why would you ever pick Okinawa over any one of a dozen Asian beach locations that are cheaper and more accessible? Okinawa has its own unique culture for sure, and I loved it when I visited, but if I weren't in Japan already I don't see why Okinawa would lure me over other places with their own interesting cultures. People coming to Japan want mainland Japanese stuff and people looking for beaches go elsewhere.
They have a long way to go down there before they are ready to accept international tourists. Example: there was a big new multimedia center built in the ferry terminal that serves the whole yaeyama chain. It was built to give people information about various destinations and activities, history, etc, aimed at tourists. I heard it cost a ridiculous sum to build. But guess what? Japanese-only! So, matador, unfortunately I don't have very high hopes for hi-tech solutions to bridge the language barrier. |
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User N. Ame
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 222
Location: Kanto
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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| kdynamic wrote: |
| The whole Yaeyama chain is awesome. As is Okinawa-honto (IMHO). Okinawa is a great tourist destination - for someone already in Japan. |
Yes, this chain of islands truly is a gem. I flew directly into Ishigaki, and made that my base. I just found the whole vibe down there so relaxed, and non-Japanese, and that infectious shima-uta music made such an impression on my that I actually purchased a sanshin (Okinawa 3-string guitar) before leaving.
I rented a car for a day to circle Ishigaki Island and check out the various sites and beaches (some fantastic mountain walks and hidden beaches, so allow yourself more than a full day to do this).
Although a major tourist draw, the white sandy roads and traditional Ryukyu architecture of Taketomijima (?) is one of the most interesting places I've seen in Japan. And some lovely beaches as well. Skip the kitschy bull-wagon rides and rent a bike instead.
Iriomote is also a real gem, and despite the boatloads of tourists filing off the docks, it sure doesn't feel very touristy. I did the obligatory jungle boat ride and walk to the waterfalls. But what I'd really love to go back and do is the cross-island jungle hike. Didn't have time for that.
I talked to few locals, shop owners while down there, and the one common concern seemed to be the environmental destruction of the coral reefs, due in part to illegal fishing practises (dynamite fishing), overfishing, but also due to dive companies allowing divers to take "trophies" from the sea. On noodle shop owner I spoke with was almost crying as he told me about the government corruption that was ruining that part of Okinawa, for example, the controversial new air strip proposed for Ishigaki.
I found prices in this region much lower than in other parts of Japan.
I had a 5 hour stopover at Naha airport on my way back, and decided to take the monorail into downtown. What a bleak and uninspiring city. I'm glad I bypassed it. |
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Gouki
Joined: 12 Mar 2003
Posts: 65
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:15 am Post subject: |
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| Lived in Japan for nearly 3 years and although I've never been to Kyushu, the Kanto and surrounding areas were awesome (Gunma, Nikko, Chiba, Nagano etc). Fantastic if you love camping. If you want to look for ugly towns and landscapes try Korea. I've never seen such ugly rows of buildings and shopping places in my life. |
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Yawarakaijin
Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 504
Location: Middle of Nagano
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 5:43 am Post subject: |
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| I've read that the reason Japan has all it's electrical wiring above ground is due to the threat of earthquakes. I'm no civil engineer but I would imagine it would be a bitch to dig up all that cable in the event of a major disaster. Then again, having it all above ground and the potential risk of eletrical fires seems to make burying them underground the logical choice. Whatever the reason is, I'm sure it makes sense to those planning the grids. |
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