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JClev
Joined: 06 Jun 2007
Posts: 5
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 Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 1:58 pm Post subject: Feedback on Shane English School, WITT Beijing |
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I have interviewed with both Shane English school in Beijing and WITT. Does anyone out there have information on these two schools they would be willing to share? Thanks.
JC |
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tw
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 3898
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Welcome to Dave's. Please learn to use the search function ASAP, as many questions could have been covered and discussed many times already. In this case, there have been many threads on Shane in Shanghai, but apparently none on the one in Beijing. However, those threads might give you a very good idea on what kind of employer Shane is. |
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u24tc
Joined: 14 May 2007
Posts: 125
Location: Dalian, China
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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Shane English School in ANY country = ABSOLUTELY CRAP... avoid at all cost.
Just google Shane English School saying something like 'Shane english school (country) bad?' and you will get like a million hits of complaints about them. |
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Tom.Ferguson
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 5
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:31 am Post subject: |
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Maybe my reply won't be appreciated, and maybe I am only inviting a barrage of insults but I would like to ask the OP to contact the school again and ask to speak with some of the teachers currently working there. That is the only true way to get an idea of what the current situation is like.
Out of interest, I took the advice of tw, and didn't find many complaints. Only a handful in the China forum since 2003, and only one for the previous 2 years, which I myself responded to. The majority were neither positive nor negative, which to me indicates that Shane isn't such a bad place to work, and certainly a lot better than other schools which often frequent these pages.
I also took u24tc's advice and googled "shane english school china bad". The results did not provide me with a million hits of complaints; mostly just information pages that did not really reflect working for the company.
It's no secret that I work for Shane; however I am not advocating taking only my word for it, especially as I have never visited the Beijing school. The more thought you give a decision like this the better in my opinion. I know the DoS there, and I am sure he would welcome a request to speak with their current teachers or teachers who have finished working there recently. They are the only people who can tell you what working for Shane in Beijing is truly like, not the inhabitants of an online forum. |
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vikuk
Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1842
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:07 am Post subject: |
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The last poster (Tom) tells the OP that he works at Shane's - and then tells the OP that the only way to find out about this school is to contact those teachers working there - good advice!!!
Hold on - Tom - you work at Shane's - maybe not at the Beijing school - but at least you can tell us a bit about this outfit - so why so shy with facts in your first post???????
You know - how you're contracted to work for this company with regard to - stuff like, hours, pay, accommodation, does Shane's allow their teachers to be farmed out, holidays, having to work evenings and weekends � that kind of stuff.
After all Shane's is a chain school so these conditions must be similar in all the outlets - so Tom there's a lot you can tell the OP about this organisation!!! After just coming out with -
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| which to me indicates that Shane isn't such a bad place to work, and certainly a lot better than other schools which often frequent these pages. |
- isn't really telling us what goes on behind the doors of Shane�s is it - and since the standards of mill work can be so dire - then even being better than average isn't a recommendation that would inspire many 
By the way I know nothing about Shane's, but sure would like Tom to tell me more. |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| Tom.Ferguson wrote: |
| Maybe my reply won't be appreciated, and maybe I am only inviting a barrage of insults.. |
You've been here before haven't you.
Tom's suggestions make good sense to me. If you want to find out about what it is like working at a school then contacting current and past teachers at that school is really the best way to go.
Seems to me that this is just another case of 'chain bashing'. Perhaps those who don't agree that Shane as a whole is worth a look would like to post evidence as to what the specific problems are there as that would be really helpful in proving your point! |
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vikuk
Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1842
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:38 am Post subject: |
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Who's bashing what???????? There is no info to bash?????????
Where is Tom's objective info about this School/chain - after all he tells us he works for Shane's and knows the Beijing DOS - so surely he can be a bit more informative than -
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| Shane isn't such a bad place to work, and certainly a lot better than other schools which often frequent these pages. |
Why isn't it a bad place to work at - why not tell us readers more about that - then you can shut up those nasty chain bashers 
Hey Clark - you ever heard of a false start |
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HunanForeignGuy
Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 989
Location: Shanghai, PRC
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:01 am Post subject: |
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| vikuk wrote: |
Who's bashing what???????? There is no info to bash?????????
Where is Tom's objective info about this School/chain - after all he tells us he works for Shane's and knows the Beijing DOS - so surely he can be a bit more informative than -
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| Shane isn't such a bad place to work, and certainly a lot better than other schools which often frequent these pages. |
Why isn't it a bad place to work at - why not tell us readers more about that - then you can shut up those nasty chain bashers
Hey Clark - you ever heard of a false start |
I never agree with Vikuk but here his points should be well-taken.
What he writes makes a great deal of common sense and he poses questions that frankly Mr. Ferguson needs to answer.
Mr. Ferguson was here before -- he was the center of a rather serious complaint, I believe by one Australian FT who felt, again if I remember correctly because the thread seems to have "disappeared", that he had been poorly treated by Shane Shanghai and by Mr. Ferugson. This thread ran about 18 months ago on this Forum and it got very heated. The Ausssie FT maintained his position (and I might add his dignity) and Mr. Ferguson maintained his.
Indeed as Vikuk writes, if one is in a managerial position, one is in a position to answer questions, it's only common business sense.
Thank you for your posts, Vikuk; you wrote, IMHO, what needed to be written.
As for the OP, please maintain EXTREME caution in respect of this chain, also. I had a good friend, an excellent teacher, who was really trashed by them in Beijing, and who went onto to another school where he has done remarkably well, as he should. I should also add that he is a teacher with more tolerance than most, with more flexibility than most, and they even managed to put him over the top in three months...problems with paychecks, payrolls, correct amounts, shlepping all over Beijing, farmed out to all corners of the greater BJ metropolitan area in one day, etc., etc. This was a teacher who had stayed in his previous positions 2, 3 years each. After three months with these guys, he ran for cover. |
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Tom.Ferguson
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 5
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:17 am Post subject: |
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I don't wish to get into a debate about the merits of chain schools, or why they are/aren't terrible places to work. I was simply advising the OP to get back in touch with the school and ask to speak to teachers who have worked there, or are still working there. That's all.
It is a well known fact that a chain school, as with any company, is only as good as the staff it employs. The conditions, such as those listed by Vikuk, are standard across the company, but it is the staff that sometimes unfortunately vary in their ability and attitude. This can make a school good to work in or not.
As the OP had already interviewed with the school in Beijing, I figured he had already been informed of the facts, and that he wasn't after this information. What he wanted was first hand knowledge of working for that school. And there is only one way to get it, by speaking to people who have first hand experience of that particular school. I don't, and that's why I pointed him back to speak to people who have. |
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vikuk
Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1842
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:14 am Post subject: |
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| As the OP had already interviewed with the school in Beijing, I figured he had already been informed of the facts, and that he wasn't after this information. |
The OP has been through an interview process with the school and yet Tom feels the need to give him this good advice -
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| What he wanted was first hand knowledge of working for that school. And there is only one way to get it, by speaking to people who have first hand experience of that particular school. I don't, and that's why I pointed him back to speak to people who have. |
Well Tom I think if he didn't get a chance through that interview to make some kind of contact to those FT's working in the school then the alarm bells should really be ringing - DING DONG DING DONG
After all any decent outfit should put potential newbie teachers in contact with experienced staff � that�s only common sense � unless the school feels those teachers haven't got anything good to say!!!!
Don't you agree with me Tom???
By the way Tom you still haven't explained to us how you can justify writing -
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| Shane isn't such a bad place to work, and certainly a lot better than other schools which often frequent these pages. |
Surely with your experience at this Shane�s you can put a bit of meat on the bones!!!!! |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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| HunanForeignGuy wrote: |
| What he writes makes a great deal of common sense and he poses questions that frankly Mr. Ferguson needs to answer. |
Why does Tom need to answer these questions? He has come here and stated quite simply that in his opinion Shane is not a bad employer, he works there himself, and that the OP could do well to contact current and past teachers at that school for further information.
Why should he be badgered into answering questions from individuals who have no real interest in the answers but are instead just looking for further fuel for their anti-school agendas?
HFG if you want others to answer your questions then perhaps you should answer the questions that other pose of you. On another thread you recently posted something about my advice causing you problems but when asked for further information you went noticably silent. Leaves me feeling that you were less than honest there and got yourself caught out by my direct question on the matter. Perhaps you would like to address that.
As far as Shane the advice that Tom has given is really spot on. He hasn't come here singing their praises. Simply to advise the OP to contact the school with any questions that you have, and contact past and present teachers from that school.
Oh and perhaps those that are suggesting that Shane is not a good school to work for could add credibility to their suggestions by providing specific information as to why!! I am sure that if you could do that then people who disagree with your opinion may choose to discuss the topic. |
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vikuk
Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1842
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Why does Tom need to answer these questions? He has come here and stated quite simply that in his opinion Shane is not a bad employer, |
Isn't finding out about a school (shane's) something to do with research - asking questions to those who are in the know!!!
Would anyone be naive enough to think Tom's opinion on Shane's was helpful when in actual fact he gave no real info on the school - what's in his posts to back up his opinion?
And yes lets be fair - those who say this chain is bad should also give a few more fact behind their posts - after all so far nobody has written anything useful about this school/chain!!! |
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Tom.Ferguson
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 5
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:31 am Post subject: |
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There have been some valid points made here, on all sides, but I feel people are still not satisfied.
"Well Tom I think if he didn't get a chance through that interview to make some kind of contact to those FT's working in the school then the alarm bells should really be ringing - DING DONG DING DONG"
No one said the OP didn't get a chance. We don't know if he asked, or if the interviewer offered, to be put in touch with current and ex-employees of the school. I would only suspect alarm bells if the school had refused to give contact information - which I know they don't. The current DoS, as I have said, is more than happy to put any potential teacher in touch with current and ex-employees.
"he gave no real info on the school", "nobody has written anything useful about this school/chain!!!"
I can give my experience, and the experience of people I have worked with, only. I find Shane are better than most as they, [remember this is in my experience and should not be treated as applicable to everyone], stick to the contract, pay you on time and generally treat you as a teacher and valued member of the school. They have a structure well suited to helping new and inexperienced teachers, [as well as those who have previous teaching experience], or those unfamiliar with China. They offer a lot of support, both welfare and academic support, and are honest about their expectations of you.
If anyone requires more information, I will happily answer any questions if you'd like to PM me. As I have already stated however, I do not want to get into a discussion about chain schools in general. I am merely trying to offer advice to the OP. |
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vikuk
Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1842
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| Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:35 am Post subject: |
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| I can give my experience, and the experience of people I have worked with, only. I find Shane are better than most as they, [remember this is in my experience and should not be treated as applicable to everyone], stick to the contract, pay you on time and generally treat you as a teacher and valued member of the school. They have a structure well suited to helping new and inexperienced teachers, [as well as those who have previous teaching experience], or those unfamiliar with China. They offer a lot of support, both welfare and academic support, and are honest about their expectations of you |
Again you�re just introducing topics where you believe you can prove Shane's is better than other mills - but not giving us any detail - and certainly no evidence to make comparisons with other schools!!! For example why can't you talk about that contract, you tell us of, in a more detailed manner - for ex. wages and how many hours an FT is expected to do to earn this money. And listing paying the teachers on time as something that makes a school good does seem to be scraping the ol' barrel for trying to find nice things to write about your employer!!!
But what really makes me scratch my head is this -
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| If anyone requires more information, I will happily answer any questions if you'd like to PM me. |
As part of Shane's managerial staff, why do you feel you can talk about this subject in private but not in an open forum - after all if you beleive this a really good school - and you want to spread the word - why do you have to cloak your message in secrecy??????
Now my alarm bells are ringing - DING DONG DING DONG |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Tom.Ferguson wrote: |
| There have been some valid points made here, on all sides, but I feel people are still not satisfied. |
Tom I think that you will find that some people here will not be satisfied unless you say something negative about the school.  Quite clearly there is no thirst for real knowledge about the school but instead a desire for muck to rake. I'm sure that if they keep digging that they will find some as I am sure that no employer in the world is squeaky clean!
If anyone here wants specific answers to specific questions about the employment terms at a certain school then wouldn't the best thing to do be to contact the school? Which is afterall what Tom is suggesting anyway! |
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