Job Discussion Forums

[007]

[Van Norden]

[veiledsentiments]

I'd say that you are both right... most of the time. Though Bebsi manages to be a bit more polite about it.

VN, there is actually much to be said for the idea of not burdening oneself with too many assets that you need to pack up or worry about. But, I do think it is a minority position and most people have bought into the idea that owning property is 'good' and that is why it gains in value as it does. I'm certainly glad that I invested my very limited income of the moment in real estate in my early 20's when all of my friends (and family) thought I was crazy. Plus I was fortunate to have a good company to manage my property when I was overseas. (the usefulness of staying friends with ex-boyfriends) But I cashed it all out in 2002 and now rent a small flat.

There are so many variables and even the professionals in the investment game often don't seem to know what they are talking about though they can dazzle you with the jargon. The key is to look at the various options, listen to what worked for other people, and decide what you hope will work for you.

VS

[canadashirleyblue]

cmp45

Will you please report back to us your findings when you go looking around at real estate this summer?

I need to buy a house. Not today but within the next five years. Somewhere. Preferrably Canada. And cheap.

The holidays are great but it costs a fortune to rent somewhere to stay. I cannot afford extensive trips to all the wonderful places near where I work that I 'should' be seeing. I have no one who can put me up for free. There is also the issue of the storage of my 'stuff'. It isn't worth a lot but I want it.

Did you see the ad for the place in Harbour Grace? It was real cheap and it needed work. Maybe something closer to St. John's would be better - but then I presume it would be more expensive. I was looking at some rents in St. John's and I was surprised that they were higher than I had expected. They look comparable to Toronto. I wonder if this is true or I just happened on these ones.

If you see any prices for holiday rentals I would be interested to know. I saw some trailers that were renting for about $600 a week in the south of France. I saw prices for renting a cottage in Ontario and they were similar. If you find any management companies please let me know.

I am going to have to do a house hunting trip but I can't do it this summer. At least if you come up with any good info it would save me some work. I retire in 5 years.

Thanks!

[cmp45]

Sure, will see what info I discover over the summer.

[Bebsi]

VN,

I will not deal with each quote as it really is getting tedious at this stage. Suffice to say the following:

You say you are not interested in material goods? Does this not suggest that you inded play the stock market out of an interest other than the acquisition of wealth? Such as for the fun of it? This alone would, I daresay, destroy any credibility that your arguments might otherwise have, for people who are very concerned indeed about material wealth and possessions. This brings us to my earlier argument: material wealth is indeed something that can and does retain its value better than shares in an abstract entity.

[canadashirleyblue]

I put all my savings into a house once (to keep the mortgage payments low) and lost the lot! My personal circumstances changed unexpectedly (as often happens to many people!) and I had to sell the house at a time when prices were low. I've made money on real estate as well. Real estate goes up and down just like any other investment.


You can lose a lot of money in real estate.

CSB

[Bebsi]

Aha, Shirley Blue, but I notice you are still looking at real-estate investment again.

To say that real-estate is a bad investment just because you had to sell it when values were low, is like saying money is bad because I lost it. You were in obviously unfortunate circumstances, and had to sell your assets. It could just as easily have been stocks or shares you had to sell.

Assuming you don't have to sell your assets, whatever they may be, at a bad time, then real-estate is a safer one as it will always remain in existence.

For example, if you bought real-estate back in 97, and didn't dispose of it, it is still there. If on the other hand, you bought dot.com shares back then...well, "where have they gone, those crazy days? where have they gone, those crazy days when we were happy with a penny...etc".

Well, I know people in Ireland who invested in apartments & houses back then, and I know people who went for dot.coms. Guess who's a LOT better off today?

[Van Norden]

This is getting very tiring. Bebsi, you don't seem to listen, or to be able to learn. I'm starting to think that you actually believe all this fatuous nonsense you're peddling here.

For some reason I keep remembering that Dan Quayle press conference when I read your silly posts. You know the one:

[canadashirleyblue]

I want to buy a house so I can live in it. It would be handy if there was an income component as well but that's not the primary reason.

In terms of investment - only God knows what will happen in the future. You pay your money and take your chances. You research the possibilities and decide what fits into your finances and life style. Nothing (not even real estate) is a certainty. In the end its a crap shoot.

[Bebsi]

VN, I wonder if you can actually, above the raucous din of your own voice screaming at others to listen, hear what anyone else is saying to YOU?

I have never attempted to reject the stock market, all I have ever done is try to point out that real-estate is generally speaking, a low risk type of investment while stocks are a considerably higher risk, per se. I absolutely acknowledge a couple of points here: namely, 1) that risk usually...although not always...is in direct proportion to potential returns, and that any investor pays his money and takes his choice; and 2) you can indeed avoid putting all your eggs in the one basket with shares, much less so with property. Of course, nowadays, more and more property investors are putting money into special property funds: basically mutual funds specifically designed for real-estate investment.

I venture to suggest that when I simply tried to offer some advice in here, for what it is worth, you leaped violently at me all swords swinging in a determined attempt to denigrate the whole idea of property investment. Indeed, your vehemence was surprising, and one could be forgiven for wondering whether in fact, as I already asked, you had a bad experience with real-estate in the past, which would explain this vehemence. You replied in the negative, however. I have nothing against shares whatsoever, I merely expressed my view that they constituted a higher risk option. You appeared, on the other hand, to feel the need to get personal.

Sadly, your own defensiveness would strongly suggest that you are not merely rejecting an argument with which you disagree, but that you have a very personal need to show your deep antipathy to a certain viewpoint.

Perhaps you feel frustrated? Perhaps you feel that sitting in a stockbroker's office on Wall Street would be a far more preferable option to spending a summer in a stuffy classroom in Saudi Arabia. Your avatar, which refers to KSA as "the worst country in the world" would perhaps suggest that you are leading a life that is not entirely of your choosing? If so, you have my unreserved sympathies. Please don't, however, take it all too personally as that way, your own arguments lose much of their impact and validity.

[Bebsi]

Of course, VN, we could just shake and agree to differ. I will think of you in that stuffy classroom you mentioned in another thread.

[I presume they have AC?????]

You actually DO have my sympathies. I used to get away from the kingdom for the summer, like Scot etc. The idea of 48 degs and 98% humidity doesn't appeal at all. Mind you, Bucharest isn't much better at the moment. Had a really vicious thunderstorm here this evening, after another stifling day.

It's hot in the Balkans at the moment Scot, so watch out!!

[Van Norden]

[Bebsi]

Can we take this as a shake then, VN?

I agree about internicine squabbles and petty arguments. Heated disagreement is one thing, but many people deliberately use this forum to get extremely nasty and offensive to others, like the unprovoked attack recently on Cleo. I am very aware that you are not among such people.

I am actually looking at mutuals myself, as they allow one to invest in small quantities, i.e. save!! I agree with the "all eggs...." point. Even smaller properties in Romania are now getting expensive. That being said, small cottages (in need of renovation, granted) in places like Transylvania are still available at a pretty low cost. So, roll up, all ye......

If you were interested in making a few extra quid (to buy some more shares? ) I would give you a commission to talk with the property people...or even the rich shebabs!!


I suspect however that while you might get some response from the "property people" as you say, the shebabs have other uses for their...ahem, hard earned cash.

[scot47]

My philosophy is that a house is something you live in. Once you start treating it as a speculation or a gamble or 'investment' you are on dangerous ground. The next step is to start buying pork-belly futures and other 'exotic' investments.