Job Discussion Forums

[denise]

This has come up on a number of threads over the past few years, but it's been on my mind again recently.

I am in the process of planning a vacation, so I went over to Lonely Planet's forum and posted what could easily be read as a stupid question. Given the way people sometimes get flamed here, I was prepared for the worst. I explained my situation, worded my post very apologetically, and then waited for the flames. Much to my surprise, not only did I not get flamed, but people actually gave me helpful answers! Wow! I read some other threads with other "newbie" questions, and again the responses were helpful, not insulting.

What makes this forum so much more negative? Sure, newbies could often get a lot of answers by using the search function, they could get more detailed responses by giving more information about themselves, etc., and they themselves often escalate things by getting defensive (especially when they don't hear what they want to hear), but still, we were all new at one point. We all had a first job, a first trip to a foreign country, etc. We all had questions.

Is it the job? The stress of living in weird places? Does it just drain us of hope and happiness? I certainly hope not! I don't want to become old and bitter!

d

[fluffyhamster]

One phrase that is seriously overused on these forums is '(not) rocket science'. My theory is that some people so get into the habit of saying or thinking this that not only do they subconsciously despise the job (or at least not give it quite its linguistic due), but they also can't forgive anyone who appears (at least intially) to not even be a moderate "computer scientist" (in the sense of not yet being even net-, let alone industry-, savvy). What we should do in most instances is point our fingers away from the usual accusatory direction and instead towards the moon (assuming we ourselves know where the moon is at).

[spiral78]

I dunno - I think, for myself, I am relatively patient with the same old questions over and over.

However, I do find that those newbies who won't believe the answers (no, dear, a US citizen/without a degree or a certification /eally won't find legal work in France - for example) get pretty tiresome.

I think I'm also prone to being fed up with those who insist that it 'isn't rocket science.' The job has many levels. Sure, if you're hanging at the newbie level in private language schools, having a blast on the weekends, for a year or two, then it's not rocket science.

But for those of us who've actually worked to make ours a viable career, well, maybe not rocket science, but I can vouch for the fact that those MAs, and experience didn't come easily.

Maybe those 'not rocket science' teachers could be a bit more respectful of the fact that they're doing one job, and others of us are doing a related job, but it is on a different level - one where it actually matters how we spell definitely, perhaps.

Anyway, I don't think I'm at all bitter. And since I hope I don't come across that way, I'll try proofreading my posts for 'bitterness' for a while.

[Glenski]

Denise,

Don't know about others, bitter or otherwise, but I certainly remember my first EFL job and the 6 months of searching I put into finding it.

I did use the search functions.
I sat and lurked for a long time before posting questions.
I collated data from forums and web sites before asking those questions.
I didn't put stock in old information that could not be substantiated.
I listened to the people on the forums before posting in order to learn who the flamers were, and who one could put some stock into.

Maybe I'm different, and I've certainly been labeled (falsely) as bitter or jaded. Water off my back. That's why I use the signature I have. I tolerate a modicum of naivete, but I guess what gets me is 3 things:

1) when the information is right there staring people in the face, yet they refuse to avail themselves of it (FAQs and search functions serve a purpose, and being a newbie does not disqualify one from using them)

2) asking overly general questions. This shows eagerness to know a lot (not a bad trait) but a lack of precision or forethought. Yes, we all make mistakes, but the very humongously general questions are uncalled for. They don't deserve severe flaming, but a mild chiding doesn't hurt. (There are those, however, who don't recognize that as such, and they immediately fall on the defensive.)

3) trying to find loopholes where they don't exist. How many times have we seen this? Around 3 or 4 times a year, in my experience. These people only come to hear what they want to hear, and anyone who tells them otherwise, no matter how experienced they may be or how much supportive information they provide, the original poster usually defends themselves with things like, "...but there ought to be a way!"

Personally, I can think of much worse forums where bitterness and flaming run rampant. Dave's is pretty tame compared to some, and it seems to have a lot more going for it.

[fluffyhamster]

Good advice there for the newbie jobseekers, Glenski.

[denise]

I certainly didn't mean you, Glenski! Or spiral78, or anyone who has posted so far... (Um, I am home sick today, and apparently I don't have the mental energy to write anything that actually represents what I want to say!)

I think I'm just a bit put off by the personal attacks, which are not even limited to newbies. I get caught up in them too, but thankfully not very often. I've just got a bit of envy of that other forum, which seems to be a fairly straightforward question-and-answer set-up--no personalities involved, so no ego clashes. Post a question, get an answer. Simple.

I wonder if a lot of people would actually consider posting questions here as part of the research process. Buy a guidebook, do a google search, and talk to real, live people who are there at the moment. Posting at Dave's certainly shouldn't be the only research that goes into a potential new job or new country, and the newbies shouldn't expect the veterans to do all the work, but this is as good a starting point as any!

I'm going back to bed now, before I make any other stupid posts.

d

[ls650]

[naturegirl321]

I think for me it's the same questions over and over. Or being PMed about questions on Peru that can be found on the Ultimate Peru List. People need to start searching for answers before the ask ones that have been asked heaps of times before. Or posting the same question on multiple forums. (The 19-year-old comes to mind.)

[Girl Scout]

Part of you answer could be found in youwhat you wrote.

[denise]

[Pavel]

Okay

[Glenski]

Pavel wrote:

[JonnyB61]

What's the dating scene like in Japan? X 10,000

[DNK]

In all seriousness though, how easy are Japanese women?

And, who else likes JPop here?!

:p From a relative newcomer's perspective, this forum is only moderately flaming. I've seen far worse, and most of it seems to come from a handful of individuals. I'd say the bitter thing might be a case of an outspoken minority, but I hardly know. At least on this forum there seems to be a pretty good mix.

[Pavel]