Job Discussion Forums

tw · Joined: 04 Jun 2005 Posts: 3898

HFG, I think what the OP is saying is that his employer will not get him a Z visa until his three-month probationary period is up. For the time being he is being lied to, cheated, misused and abused like a white dancing monkey. He wants to get his Z visa, call it quits, party up for a couple weeks before heading back to Canada. Once back in Canada he will find a new position and return to teach and live in the new city with the RPF his current employer has gotten him.

jonathanj · Joined: 09 Mar 2005 Posts: 93

tw · Joined: 04 Jun 2005 Posts: 3898

Joe C. · Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:04 am Post subject:

jonathanj · Joined: 09 Mar 2005 Posts: 93

Joe C. · Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:48 am Post subject:

cj750s · Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:23 am Post subject:

RP are now "checkable" nation wide..and while a visa cannot be canceled..with out the FT being there..for the most part...the RP can be flagged and notice given when the FT shows up on the radar at a border or PSB

Joe C. · Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:32 am Post subject:

clark.w.griswald · Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 2056

So it seems that you are here now on your own L visa, but that you are considering going first to get a work (F or Z) visa and then leaving. Who is paying for the trip and the visa? If it is the school then wouldn't it be dishonest of you to accept the money for all of that if your plan is to leave.

As others have pointed out the visa provided by that company won't be of much use to you work wise unless you work for that company so it seems your suggestion about heading back to Canada before the visa change might be the best idea.

cj750s · Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:26 am Post subject:

eliseinchina · Joined: 03 May 2007 Posts: 13 Location: harbin

Atleast from my experience, which is very recent. I had a problem with an employer, I finished my contract but I had a good deal of time left on the RPF. They threatened, they told me in fact my residence permit had been cancelled. I left my city and came to Beijing where I retained the services of a good local employment attorney, he went to the Entry Exit bureau with copies of my passport.

They refused to talk to him because he didn't have the original document (passport). they came and got me, we went down together, they punched my visa into the shiney new computer and told me where it had been issuued and from what school. THEN they said something that makes perfect sense...."If a visa is cancelled, the visa holder must be informed to leave china. ALSO, the original visa must be presented, as in the sticker in the passport for a cancellation stamp" and they also said pretty much what CJ indicated, if you're an axe murderer or something so terrible, they can FLAG that visa, but to cancel it they have to have the original sticker to cancel it because it has to be marked in the passport.

Flagging a visa might mean you could be detained etc, if you lied to them for some reason (not applicable to the OP of course)

The gal and her manager at the entry exit bureau laughed when we told them the employer told us they had cancelled the visa. the supervisors comment was "if we want you to leave china, we have to TELL you to leave, we can not expect you to leave our country if you are undesirable if we haven't told you to leave" and by telling us to "leave" they meant physically having the visa with a cancellation stamp on it.

Now, they also said most cities aren't even hooked up into this system yet, and that many employers will call in a friend at the PSB and tell you the visa is cancelled, but they were adament that the visa is not cancelled unless it's presented for a cancellation "mark".

That being said, they were also careful to tell us that the visa was issued to the school for me to work for that school, so my residency is not an issue, my ability to WORK for another employer,,,, ahhh another thing entirely. Converting the Z visa to an F or another Z is not an easy thing unless you have the release letter, on an american passport, but even that is doable, apparently in Shandong province they make a tidy sum doing just that for teachers who have uhh difficulties . The base price as provided by my attorney is 4000 kwai! and they expect that lil loophold to be closed fairly soon.

Hope this helps, this is recent experience and I was lucky to be in Beijing and be able to go with the attorney to the bureau and see for myself!

and aren't I lucky to find a new employer who knew there was a problem and paid for a lawyer to sort it out. Smile

brsmith15 · Joined: 12 May 2003 Posts: 1142 Location: New Hampshire USA

I don't know if there's a possibility of this or not, but if you shaft your school, they might just be peeved enough to contact the PSB and tell them you did some horrid thing. Then when you try to leave and the cops at the airport run your name through their computer.....Bingo!

Now you've got REAL trouble.

anpeiyao · Joined: 06 Jun 2007 Posts: 1

I was going to get into this discussion to try to clarify some things but it seems that you all understand what Jonathan is saying now. I work for the same place as him - actually I'm not contracted to this school. My contract is with a highly regarded university but, instead of giving me university classes, they have sent me to fill in my time at this shabby little language school. Someone is getting rich! I'm not sure what J should do to stop from getting into trouble but I can assure the rest of you that what he is saying, although not clear, is very true. We are all confused. We are all shafted. The rules the school sets down change almost daily and J and other teachers are in a blender as far as knowing what to do legally and morally. One guy left, giving proper notice and now they won't pay, they have reported his new school to some authorities (for whatever, I'm not sure). The leader is a vindictive, cow of a woman who can put on the charm when needs be and stab you in the back next time. It's one of those nightmare jobs I've only heard about before. I was able to get a letter of release when I told the university I was going to seek final arbitration. I hope the language school goes under!

Joe C. · Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 6:56 am Post subject:

Brian Caulfield · Joined: 14 Sep 2004 Posts: 1247 Location: China

My feeling after reading the friend's problem and getting e-mail from friends in Beijing is that there is so much cheating in the ESL field in China . I saw the same thing in Nanyang where I signed a contract with a University to find out the deans farm out teachers to local bushibons after the teachers sign contracts stating they are only allowed to work at the universities . So if one wants to work at a bushibon one has to break the law . Probably the person can't work at the language mill because they are not legally allowed to hire anyone . There are only a certain number of foreign expert certificates issued . This guarantees the universities some extra cash being there is no competition for teachers .
So they lie to people and make up stories about probation periods and promises of trips to Hong Kong. The same thing goes on in Korea .
My suggestion is to hit the road . Go to Hong Kong come back in and get some work in another city and province . Beijing is a bad place to work now because it is saturated with foreigners who want to be part of the Olympic experience .
I smell lies and more lies . The way I would play it is to tell them how much you like working there and have all sorts of things you want to do to promote the place . Come in smiling everday and as soon as you get the money run. If they don't pay , tell the big lie . You need to get a life saving operation and you really need the money but you will be back into work the next Monday.