Job Discussion Forums

[kdynamic]

Search for "I have many" on google and you get nearly 2 million hits, most of which seem to be written by native speakers. The first link on the list is actually an example of "I have many friends." Not all the pages are North American either (I see some .uk URLs).

Perhaps it is technically incorrect (I don't know) but apparently a lot of people consider it acceptable usage.

"Very delicious" gets half a million hits too, even though I do agree it sounds awkward.

[gaijinalways]

Thanks kdynamic, I guess I have friends in low places! I also notice no one has seemed to answer my 'Digit?' question.

[DNK]

No, no, I wasn't talking that way in class purposefully. I'd just catch myself answering questions in a Brazilian accent, and struggled to not talk like a complete beginner.

I'm standing there thinking, "but I never been Brazil, why I speak like this?!" I managed, but that was after just ten minutes...

I did start thinking with a Ukrainian accent as well, but didn't let it slip out.

On the upside, I had an interview tonight with a Japanese woman, and for the whole 30 min I didn't once start speaking with a Japanese accent... that's something.

[Apsara]

I also did that search, and pretty much everything I found I would have called written form, not something you hear in conversation. Either that or a form of advertising "I have many original 30G iPods", or questions "Can I have many....?"

I suggested that search knowing that good English usage is not necessarily a standard feature of what you see on the internet anyway, and I'm more interested in hearing actual spoken examples, like from movie scripts.

I remain convinced that people should teach their students "I have a lot of/ lots of" in preference to "I have many...." and that "very delicious" should be corrected.

That's all from me on that- I have many things to do today

[GIR]

[JonnyB61]

Sod it!
Done it again.
Sorry.

[ndorfn]

for sure. it's the top-end words you lose most.

I try and keep reading and listening to podcasts to slow down the loss.

[codedals]

"The Elements of Style" by William Strunk Jr. is a nice pocket-sized book to pick up. I doubt it will help in the area of vocabulary, but it is sure to be an aid of grammar. It's based on North American (U.S.) English, but the information therein is excellent.


(and I'm sure Mr. Strunk would have a field day destroying the above)

[fluffyhamster]

Codedals, I haven't read Strunk(&White), but the nice people at Language Log have, and they don't seem to think much of it. Perhaps it would be better described as a guide to 'improving your "style" ' (whatever that means, to those who consider it important), rather than 'an aid of grammar' (?).

Interesting thread, this. I'm not sure about the rule-mongering over 'many' - 'Many people will probably agree (with me)' - but there's perhaps something to the 'much' argument. I'd teach 'a lof of' as a shortcut for both.

I also do not like native teachers making a mess of their own language (that's what non-native teachers are for LOL), but:

1) to what extent should native norms be pushed when 'English as Lingua Fraca' seems to now be on everyone's mind if not their lips(Google 'Jenkins', 'Seidlhofer' etc; there's a page on this by Seidlhofer in the rear matter of the Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary, 7th Edition)

2) to what extent can anyone really speak in an unplanned, spontaneous way with learners? There's probably a fine line between needing to reformulate in order to be better understood, and cutting out on those seemingly "inessential" words (this leads back to the NNS usage of ELF in 1)

One way to avoid the problem is to speak the learner's language (L1), however brokenly, and save the "perfect" L2 for those carefully considered bits of language that contain all the stuff you've been banging on about all class/term/year.

Of course, a lot depends on the level (age) of the students - I think some pidgeonization is almost inevitable with elementary schoolkids (if you ever want to appear at least remotely playful and accepting with the language(s)).

[JRCash]

In my case, my parents keep scolding me (I'm in my mid-twenties!) for having obtained an Irish accent - the region of Wales I come from has a bland accent and the area of Ireland I live in has a strong accent...

[codedals]

[gaijinalways]

Shrunk and White is a style guide, but more for people who edit and proofread. I certainly don't correct enough high level writing to bother with it, I have several grammar/structure books which cover many of the same points. Some of Shrunk and White is also online, though I suppose a paper copy does have its uses. I should perhaps pick up my own copy, I got lazy about buying one from a previous job where we had access to one in the office.

[Sherri]

The people I met in Japan who had lost the ability to speak English naturally were the ones who:

1. talked "wrong" to their students. I guess they thought they were making it easier for their students to understand by saying for example "I have many books" when most people would choose to say "a lot of" (since it is a positive sentence) Or even worse--dropping articles when speaking to their students! How does that make comprehension any easier? I have never understood that.

2. peppered their English with lots of Japanese words and fillers. How I hate that! After a while they start to think that there is no English word equivalents, their families and friends at home can't understand them (for ex--genki, gomi, densha, eki). And--why oh why end your English sentences with deshou or kana?

3. Did not read or write in English --like the poster who is dong a PhD in Japan said--you have to use it. Not everyone has to do a PhD but at least read something beyond the Japan Times and keep up with your field or interest by writing about it!

Over and out!
Sherri

[Mothy]

I'm not even in Japan yet but I find I have to really stop myself from ending certain sentences with "ne?" I think because my wife uses it so much. I'll probably have to be extra careful about this type of thing once I'm in Japan since it seems like I'm susceptible to this kind of thing... ne?

[nomadder]

Yes, while in Japan I tried not to get in to too many Japanese fillers and seasoners mixed in to English. But there is a sense of the language permeating in to English and intonation and things changing. Articles seemed irrelevant and troublesome. Some words didn't need to be translated. All those agreeing/listening thingies came in to play. There's a thing like sympathy English and really checking the listener's comprehension. You want to connect as best you can.

After leaving I noticed how I did enunciate better and spoke slowly, clearly and loudly. Difficult words disappeared and so did some idioms. What a relief to once again speak rapid fire and with cultural references and crazy idioms and jokes-though I'll never take it for granted again. All in all I'm hoping it's prepared me for a turn on the stage.