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Quibby84 · Joined: 10 Aug 2006 Posts: 643 Location: Japan

We are studying Sea Animals in my preschool and everytime I ask them if they eat whale they say "NOOOO!" (even the teachers)..so do they eat it and not know or do only a few people eat it?

User N. Ame · Joined: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 222 Location: Kanto

Quibby84 · Joined: 10 Aug 2006 Posts: 643 Location: Japan

Yeah, but I recently saw in the news that Japan was fighting with Australia about whaling. They wanted to kill the whales and eat them and the Australians wanted to "whale spot" for tourism. This was like 3 weeks ago, do they still eat whale?

ironopolis · Joined: 01 Apr 2004 Posts: 379

Go to the fish market in Shimonoseki and you'll find plenty of whale - stalls selling big whale steaks, and whale sushi on the conveyor belt of the kaiten place on the 2nd floor.

Shimonoseki was one of Japan's biggest whaling ports, so I'm not sure if it's the same elsewhere around the country.

furiousmilksheikali · Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 1:14 am Post subject:

Yes, Japan still eats whale. The idea is that it is hunted for "scientific" purposes but after being studied it is eaten rather than thrown away. Whether or not the whaling yields true scientific results is something that no one seems to agree on.

What makes things a little suspicious is that proponents of whaling seem to throw a lot of additional reasons for whaling into the mix such as saying it is cultural therefore apparently above international legal standards. It protects industries that have also wandered down an evolutionary dead-end. Whaling is supposed to protect fish stocks that hamper the ability of Japan to overfish in waters populated by whales.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/5080508.stm

As for dolphin fishing it seems that the same rules apply as they do to whaling but as User N.Ame has pointed out the practices are done in secret which suggests that even the Japanese public consider it going too far. It is also a disgrace if dolphin meat with high levels of mercury are being sold as anything other than what it is. If this is true it is utterly irresponsible behaviour heaped on top of obstinately barbaric behaviour.

As for my comments to markle, I usually like what markle posts and his post on this thread was an uncharacteristic outburst of cheese-cutting cerebral flatulence.

markle · Joined: 17 Jan 2003 Posts: 1316 Location: Out of Japan

I just get a little frustrated when legitimate conservation issues get sidetracked by essentially emotive arguments "Don't kill the poor little dolphin, its so cute and smart..." when really it should be focussing on the " Don't kill the dolphins because it's pointless and ultimately damaging to the environment..."
There is I'm sure plenty of economic, environmental and even socio-cultural reasons for stopping whaling and dolphin killing but they're just not as sexy as the sentimental / political ones.

I also object to the use of the subject as a way of scoring 'moral superiority brownie points'. The Australian government is a case in point, they raise strenous opposition to whaling (because it won't hurt them politically) but have no qualms about imposing martial law on Aboriginal communities - their own citizens.

Finally, I have seen dolphins in the wild, you can feed them in some places back home. But they are no more cute or engaging than any other creature out there. They don't say " Ek ekkekeee there's a boat sinking out on the reef, follow me and we'll go and save them!" generally they eat the fish offered and pi ss off back to the sea. So I can understand how Japanese fishermen view them, another species competing for a limited resourse, a resourse that puts bread and butter on the table. That perspective maybe outdated or mistaken but never theless valid to those people.

User N. Ame · Joined: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 222 Location: Kanto

DNK · Joined: 22 Jan 2007 Posts: 236 Location: the South

For the record, my position is some sort of "flipper complex", although it apparently is also a "babe complex", among other notable animal actor complexes Razz

To back up the ecological argument, these things can and many times do affect nations other than the one doing the killing due to migration and regional ecological consequences. Unfortunately, due to a dearth of perfectly moral nations, the hypocrisy argument can be used basically anytime.

Topo Gigo · Joined: 01 Jun 2006 Posts: 57 Location: Japan

One big difference between eating whale/dolphin and eating cows/pigs/sheep is that the later are all farmed animals, bred specifically for our consumption. Most developed countries have regulations now for their well-being and methods of slaughter (although I'm sure these leave a lot to be desired, but at least they're there and some control is in place).

Harpooning whales for their meat is not a necessary evil anymore - the countries still doing this (except maybe some remote Inuit populations, which besides is on a different scale) have plenty of other options for food. Despite all the research done on these animals, we still know precious little about them, and have no real idea of what effect slaughtering thousands a year will have on their populations, or on the rest of the oceans ecosystem (a whale carcass can provide a huge amount of nourishment for a lage variety of organisms for many years, but not if it's in some supermarket freezer). The ocean is a big place and one we can't easily visit.
I have also yet to hear any convincing argument as to how killing whales is an effective way of doing research on them. To get funding for any scientific project, you need to submit proposals outlining why it's a good idea, how you expect it to work, why you expect it to work, what you will do with the results once in, etc. With all the pressure on the Japanese government on this issue, I'd have thought they'd at least share the basics of the theory with us. If anyone knows it, please tell!

As far as eating dolphin goes, according to this acticle
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/article2129954.ece
it doesn't even taste nice, and sells for less than beef. If that's the case, then you're left with the argument that they're doing it because of the threat of competition for fish that the dolphin pose. Firstly, why does the method have to be so barbaric, and secondly, it is a sad fact that we have been over fishing our oceans for many years, and killing a few dolphins isn't going to change that. It's a world-wide problem, not just for Japan, (although they do go through an enormous amount of fish here), and unfortunately fish are difficult to farm, and we are depleting our stocks.

And on the cutsey flipper argument, it is well documented that dolphins are intelligent, and there have been stories of them actually helping humans of their own free will (no Marine training etc). They are beautiful, graceful creatures - why would you want to kill them? The same with whales. They are immense, majestic wonders of our world and it would be nice to recognize them as such, not clump them together with cows and pigs (cute as they may be), which have been artificially bred in mans' image inorder to provide us with burgers and bacon, and would not otherwise exist in their current form.

Topo Gigo · Joined: 01 Jun 2006 Posts: 57 Location: Japan

Oh, one more thing; the we do it because it's tradition/cultural argument is dolphin poo.
Some African cultures practice female circumcision. Sould we endorse that? It's their culture.
I'm British. It has until recently been our culture to chase foxes with dogs, atop a horse, whilst blowing a horn. If anyone criticised that in the past, I'd say fair play. Not something I'm proud of.
Traditions change. The world changes. So what if these fishermen have been doing it for 100s of years? Time to retrain.

DNK · Joined: 22 Jan 2007 Posts: 236 Location: the South

I don't want to go too far off topic and address a number of fallacies you've made, but I'll say that there is much to be desired when it comes to the "humane" practices set up by developed countries for farming livestock, in the same way there was much to be desired in the "humane" practices of, say, Stalin.

I'll leave the thread on that note, since I'm too tempted to just sidetrack it, although I think it's already pretty much over anyway.

6810 · Joined: 16 Nov 2003 Posts: 309

Here it comes... the same reply I always give in the "save the whales" thread...

If you eat meat, then meat's meat.

The only way of getting that meat is through murder.

There is no humane murder. The mechanical slaughterhouse is a socio-psychological way of dealing with this fact.

So, whale meat, cat meat, koala meat... whatever. If you're eating it, it was killed.

GreenEyes · Joined: 22 Jun 2007 Posts: 40 Location: Japan

Spot on, 6810.

Someone else kills our food for us. We no longer hunt and gather. I was devastated when I watched that video clip. I`m heart sick and torn. More and more I`m beginning to feel that part of what separates us from God these days is how little we actually need to do for ourselves in order to survive. It`s all done for us. Everything. We don`t even have to handwrite letters anymore. I don`t know what many of my friends` handwriting looks like.

About the intelligence issue and cuteness factor, I can relate. I understand the draw to certain animals. About animal mothers and their babies, all separated mothers and babies experience extreme stress. They claw and fight to reunite but are never successful, because their brief lives are destined to be filled with suffering and a brutal end.

It makes me sick even talking about this. What I wonder is whether any of you are willing to do something about the dolphin culling in Japan. (Has this been addressed yet? I`m too strung out to bother back-reading.) Is this going to be today`s debate and then tucked aside? It`s not important that everyone jump on a wagon and fight when they`ve encountered something upsetting. Simply being a part of a process of spreading information and in turn questioning your beliefs is admirable and needed. But ... many of us are here in Japan. It`s on our front porch (if we allow it to be, that is). Are any of you willing to take this further?

Just curious.