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jonniboy
Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Posts: 751
Location: Panama City, Panama
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 Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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| rusmeister wrote: |
(Whilst we are sitting in judgement on the Russians...) Granted, Russia has significant problems, and they are also culturally driven, but they are also out in the open more -the laws don't force them to hide it so much, and their social-medical system leaves the drunks laying on the steps.
Actually, speaking as an American, there is a problem with the American perspective on drinking as well.
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I did find the American thing a bit heavy handed and over the top, especially when my friend, who was 28 and looked it, got turned away from a bar cos they had a stricter id interpretation than the other bars who'd been accepting his university id. Lots of Russians in Latvia and they do overdo it a bit but the worst they do is just pass out drunk somewhere. The main problems that Riga has had with drunken misbehavior has been with the English tourists.
I don't know that the opening post is totally untrue though. Russia and nearby countries like the Baltic states have the highest disparities between men and women - 86 men for every 100 women and it seems to be purely down to the lower male life expectancy caused by booze.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_ratio#List_of_sex_ratios_by_country.2Fregion
It's interesting that the Gulf states have the opposite ratios for, I suspect, quite different reasons. |
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mdk
Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Posts: 425
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| Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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| 86 men for every 100 women and it seems to be purely down to the lower male life expectancy caused by booze. |
Let's not forget smoking. I was so sorry to see American tobacco companies doing advertising stunts that are illegal here in California. I don't think the Russians are sophisticated enough -maybe that isn't the proper term - they haven't yet developed the herd immunity to tobacco advertising that we have here. |
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rusmeister
Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 867
Location: Russia
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| Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:38 am Post subject: |
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| mdk wrote: |
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| 86 men for every 100 women and it seems to be purely down to the lower male life expectancy caused by booze. |
Let's not forget smoking. I was so sorry to see American tobacco companies doing advertising stunts that are illegal here in California. I don't think the Russians are sophisticated enough -maybe that isn't the proper term - they haven't yet developed the herd immunity to tobacco advertising that we have here. |
No, it's not a good term. Russians will find it offensive (as we would if they used the term towards us). |
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The_Northerner
Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 130
Location: St. Louis, Missouri, USA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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I live in Tallinn, which is 30% Russian, so let me put my kaks senti in...
In the USA, in my hometown, you'd never find:
*2L screwtop plastic bottles of 8% beer
*A guy drinking said 8% beer on the bus in the morning. Or walking down the street. He would be the "town drunk", but here is simply "a guy".
*10% beer, in any form.
*Beer being vividly advertised as being 6, 8, or 10%.
*Small corner stores where they have one bottle of juice, nary a packet of tissues, but a fully-stacked liquor section. |
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mdk
Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Posts: 425
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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Sounds like Compton to me. Only they would be selling "night train" wine more than beer, but you would still see a lot of people drinking fortified beer.
In New Mexico they had drive up windows at the liqour store. You could pull up and get a bottle of everclear alcohol.
A distressing thing I saw in Russia was that they were agressively marketing stuff like "Red Bull". |
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GF
Joined: 08 Jun 2003
Posts: 238
Location: Tallinn
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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| The_Northerner wrote: |
I live in Tallinn, which is 30% Russian, so let me put my kaks senti in...
In the USA, in my hometown, you'd never find:
*2L screwtop plastic bottles of 8% beer
*A guy drinking said 8% beer on the bus in the morning. Or walking down the street. He would be the "town drunk", but here is simply "a guy".
*10% beer, in any form.
*Beer being vividly advertised as being 6, 8, or 10%.
*Small corner stores where they have one bottle of juice, nary a packet of tissues, but a fully-stacked liquor section. |
I also live in Tallinn (which is 36.5% Russian).
*Yes, there are 1.5 and 2 liter plastic bottles of beer here (Bear Beer and others of low quality), but few people buy such sizes. Virtually all beer is sold in .5 liter glass bottles. Those who usually buy that super-sized crap are those with little money who will drink anything.
*A guy walking around with said bottles is looked upon as a 'bomzh' or simple alcoholic in my neighborhood.
*We also have 11.8% beer, imported from Holland! How many people do you know who drink these stronger beers? No one I know does.
*The strong beers are not 'vividly' advertised at all. Only the major brands (normal strength) are.
*Corner shops are usually full of alcohol, but many also have other products. The one down the street from me has some household goods, canned foodstuffs, sweets, and freshly made meat, veggie and fruit pies as well as various pastries and cakes. |
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GF
Joined: 08 Jun 2003
Posts: 238
Location: Tallinn
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| mdk wrote: |
| A distressing thing I saw in Russia was that they were agressively marketing stuff like "Red Bull". |
What's wrong with that? It mixes well with Jagermeister. |
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mdk
Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Posts: 425
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:46 am Post subject: |
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Jagermeister (Ptui!)
Once as a GI, I only had enough deutsche marks to buy a shot of jagermeister instead of a beer for some reason which I forget. Jagermeister early in the morning was enough to put me off the stuff for life.
Gimme a nice cold glass of Kvass. A half liter of beer will put me out of action. That's why I liked Spain - a "cana" of beer is a quarter liter. Just enough to wash down a sandwhich. |
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Digdug79
Joined: 05 Feb 2007
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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I was very interested to see this post, cos I'm starting an MRes in Russian Studies at UCL (London) later this month, and my dissertation will be on voluntary orgs helping alcoholics in Russia. A big thank you for flagging up that Lancet article - very useful 
The recent World Bank report 'Dying Too Young' has found similar trends throughout Russia:
http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/COUNTRIES/ECAEXT/0,,contentMDK:20661159~pagePK:146736~piPK:146830~theSitePK:258599,00.html
The report doesn't try and quantify how many deaths are due to alcohol like the Lancet article, but it does say alcoholism is probably the most important factor in Russia's population crisis, and that it accounts for the huge gap in male/female life expectancy (which is about 10 years). Also that the problem is worse in rural areas than cities. And it's easy to forget the indirect effects of alcoholism too - it's a big factor in Russia's awful domestic violence and road safety records.
If anyone here thinks they can help with my research (e.g. if you know anyone who runs help groups for alcoholics in Russia or Ukraine) please do PM me! |
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