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Bradtheexpat
Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 3
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 Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:05 am Post subject: Maybe moving to Saudi, Need advice |
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Hi,
I am thinking about moving to saudi arabia (and will be teaching english if i do so)in the next few years and I am looking for information.
1) What is the average pay for English teachers with 10 years experience and a degree in App. Ling?
2) How are the work conditions(also hours, vaction, etc...), and are there any employers to avoid?
3) Last, and most important, I will be with my wife (korean) and i am concerned about bringing her to a country that is rather notorious for it's poor treatment of women. Will she be able to go out in public wihout me and how are things like shopping, entertainment and all that stuff that she can enjoy while i am at work? Could she get a job as an english teacher (she has degrees in english) or is that not possible?
We want to move somewhere where we are both foriegn before we settle in Canada and we would like to make decent money where we go, right now we are looking at the middle east or maybe singapore.
thanks in advance for your advice
brad |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 5:53 am Post subject: |
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| i am concerned about bringing her to a country that is rather notorious for it's poor treatment of women. |
Most Saudi women do not consider their treatment to be 'poor', believe me!
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| Will she be able to go out in public wihout me |
Yes.
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| how are things like shopping, entertainment |
There is plenty of the former but very little of the latter, if by 'entertainment' you mean public venues like cinemas, bars or clubs.
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| all that stuff that she can enjoy while i am at work? |
I have no idea what sort of 'stuff' your wife enjoys, but the people who are happiest in KSA are those who can make their own fun - which can mean anything from taking up a sport (lots of facilities) to doing an online degree, to going shopping to catching up on all those books you've always meant to read. Despite what the merchants of gloom (here and elsewhere) would have you believe, so long as you can take the initiative and live without nightclubs and bars, KSA does not have to be a boring place to live.
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| Could she get a job as an english teacher |
The fact that your wife is not a native speaker and has no background in ESL would obviously work against her. On the other hand, the fact that, as your dependent, she would not be eligible for many benefits and would not require employers to go through an expensive and potentially troublesome visa process, would make her attractive to some employers. However, this is something you will have to find out after you arrive, and you should be aware that opportunities for female teachers are still far fewer than for male teachers. |
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canadashirleyblue
Joined: 06 May 2007
Posts: 162
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| Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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It would depend on how low your wife would go in terms of salary and her command of English. Saudis pay by nationality. They like to hire people who have no right to work in Saudi so they can pay cash and fire them when they feel like it.
There are no cinemas in Saudi.
As for going out - most of the year it is far to hot for anyone to go outside walking. There are rarely any sidewalks, either. Women can and do go out by themselves. If she is wrapped up in her abaya (which she will HAVE to wear) and her face is covered it would be difficult to know where she was from. The principal's wife and daughter were stopped on the street and taken to the police station as suspected prostitutes when the principal dropped them off to go shopping. I suspect this was because they were black.
Women can not go into an internet cafe. Men and women are segreted for most things. If you want to send a fax or pay your phone bill there is the men's entrance and the woman's. If you go to McD's there is the men's entrance and the "family" entrance. Restaurants do not generally permit women on their own to eat because it is assumed they are prostitutes. Women may not go to a restaurant with a man who is not their husband, son, brother or father.
There is lots and lots of shopping. There are lots of western shops. There are lots of health clubs which are for women only. She would need to socialize in women only groups unless it was a private event in a private home.
Everything shuts 5 times a day for prayer. Men who look Muslim can and are picked up by the matawa (religious police) if they are not in the mosque praying at prayer time. Of course, they let you off later - after you have spent 5 or 6 hours in the police station. Christian (or any other) worship is illegal.
There are loads more thrilling details I could tell you! I actually liked it there! But then there are those who question my sanity.  |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 5:51 am Post subject: |
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| Restaurants do not generally permit women on their own to eat because it is assumed they are prostitutes. |
This is not true. In my experience as a single woman in Riyadh, the only restaurants that routinely refuse entry to single women are the down-market places that cater to workers from the Indian subcontinent, as well as a few male-only felafel places. However, almost all of the international chain restaurants are happy to admit women, whether alone or with their 'family'.
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| Men who look Muslim can and are picked up by the matawa (religious police) if they are not in the mosque praying at prayer time |
This may have been common some years ago, but it is very rare now, though it may occasionally still happen.
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| I actually liked it there! But then there are those who question my sanity. |
I like it here too. Personally, I question the sanity of those who constantly remind us of how much they hate it here, and yet somehow when spring comes around are always the first to renew their contracts 'just for one more year'. |
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007
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| canadashirleyblue wrote: |
| They like to hire people who have no right to work in Saudi so they can pay cash and fire them when they feel like it. |
Also, I know some people who have the right to work and were fired by the Saudi when they like it.
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| Men who look Muslim can and are picked up by the matawa (religious police) if they are not in the mosque praying at prayer time. |
Men who look like Muslim!?
I think the above statement is exaggerated.
I wonder how the muttawa can differentiate between a Muslim and non-Muslim if they look the same from outside!!!
Take for example an Indian Muslim and an Indian Christian, they look the same, so how can the muttawa decide which one is which?
I have never seen a Muttawa pick up any Muslim who does not go to the Mosque, in addition, the only people who are picked up, regardless if they are Muslim or not, are the shop workers or owners, in case they did not close their shop during prayer calls (Athan).
I have been in Jeddah many times, and have seen many Muslim men and women outside the mosque and in streets during the prayer time, and they were not harassed or picked up by the muttawas.
I know for sure that the Sikh people look like Muslim (from their traditional way of clothing), and were harassed and attacked in the land of uncle Sam and uncle Tony after the event of 9/11, because they look like Muslims!!!!!! |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| I have been in Jeddah many times, and have seen many Muslim men and women outside the mosque and in streets during the prayer time, and they were not harassed or picked up by the muttawas. |
Good for you.
While I'm not sure what is meant by being 'picked up', here in Riyadh it used to be quite common for the mutaween to ask "Muslim looking" men why they were not praying. I myself have seen them stand near the male sections of restaurants and urge men to go to the mosque. I have also heard stories about such behaviour from male colleagues, and once saw a mutawwa approach a Syrian man in a shopping centre, asking him why he was not at prayer. When he replied that he was in fact Christian, he was left alone. However, as I've said, such stories are rarer now, as are most mutawwa-related incidents.
They must be running out of 'conversation' topics at the compound parties... |
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furiousmilksheikali
Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 1660
Location: In a coffee shop, splitting a 30,000 yen tab with Sekiguchi.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:01 am Post subject: |
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| Cleopatra wrote: |
While I'm not sure what is meant by being 'picked up', here in Riyadh it used to be quite common for the mutaween to ask "Muslim looking" men why they were not praying. I myself have seen them stand near the male sections of restaurants and urge men to go to the mosque. I have also heard stories about such behaviour from male colleagues, and once saw a mutawwa approach a Syrian man in a shopping centre, asking him why he was not at prayer. When he replied that he was in fact Christian, he was left alone. However, as I've said, such stories are rarer now, as are most mutawwa-related incidents.
They must be running out of 'conversation' topics at the compound parties... |
I take it that the duties of the muttaween are more important than praying. |
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