Job Discussion Forums

[naturegirl321]

A guy at my school just came to China after working in Taiwan. He's shocked at the books that we are using. CHina's not really known for it's quality books. ANd to make things worse, the owner of the school wrote them, and they really aren't the best. She's not even fluent in English.

It got me to thinking, How does the quality of schools in China compare to the ones in Taiwan? Because Taiwan is so small and richer, I think it would be better. It's seems that there is more competition. Also it's been open to foreigners for a bit longer.

Any thoughts from those who have been to both?

[killian]

ain't even close. taiwan outpaces china going away. resources, english level of chinese staff, ability to pay a living wage and in standard class size the state of affairs in taiwan just makes china look...silly.

e.g.: in china i had to request a week in advance for those fuzzy, blurred hand cranked copies. taiwan has the state of the art.

[Roger]

There are two obvious factors contributing to the low-quality of Chinese-made textbooks:
- Political considerations preventing the importing of western-designed
materials.
- Financial implications.

Why not produce good things locally? Yes, but who could make them? Again, financial considerations prevent Chinese from hiring someone competent. They would much rather waste their own time compiling something, possibly lifted from various sources, with the problem being compounded by the compiler's bad English.

[Bookworm]

I obviously have to agree with Killian on this point; obviously Taiwan outshines mainland China in EVERY regard, but then surely every country (maybe with the exception of Cambodia) does......?

What makes me laugh is how China wants to 'advise' Taiwan on 'economic matters'! Yeah, right! What are they goign to do, show them how to become like the mainland, i.e, the direct opposite of the Midas touch: everything the Chinese touch turns to, well, the exact opposite of gold.

[Wolf]

[Roger]

Wolf,
I agree with you, but I can't see the Chinese taking English seriously enough to squander public funds on GOOD teaching materials!
By the way, for me there is hardly any need to use textbooks in oral classes! I do think teachers need a kind of resources book, and the ability to stick to a target but to achieve it by improvising. Lessons, in my opinion, should not recycle bookish ideas and patterns; they should be drawn from the depths of life. Teach them another subject using the medium of English.
But where are these resources books? I have my own collection of concepts and ideas, and a couple of useful guides such as a book with ideas of games. OF course, it was printed overseas - and cost some RMB 100 - but it was worth this amount!

[Wolf]

There are some books like the one Roger describes. One title I remember was "Classic Classroom Activities." I used to use books that were nothing more than a compilation of classroom activities. Depending on what you were teaching, you'd choose appropriate materials. Had I known I was going to China, I would have taken more of them from my old school (not stealing they went out of business and gave the teachers all the books.)

Books like that would be great. Onces with Chinese learners in mind would be super. Sadly, availability is a hideous issue.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Books are a crutch for teachers who cannot teach and students who cannot learn. Today books have become such a common condiment in the classroom, and used so much, that students don't get to taste any other kinds of learning and teachers don't try to design or try any new kinds of teaching techniques. It is also the reason why so many teachers are so stupid! Their minds are destroyed by the over use of textbooks and they lose the ability to plan a lesson best suited to the students. Likewise, students fall into the trap and think that they are really learning a lot from the textbook, but in fact, most learning happens during the brief moments of relief when the teacher goes off topic and doesn't use the textbook.

[Wolf]

Yes, books are a crutch. Not only for teachers who rely to heavily on such resources, but other teachers who have balanced syllabus designs, with activities based on all sorts of things, ought to be tarred with the nasty book brush as well. I mean, how dare they not re-invent the wheel for themselves? Reading textbooks and activity books and then adapting them for your own classroom; what professional teacher would be caught dead doing this?

Books are a resource, and a good teacher will use them with discresion. A good teacher would, I'm sure, bemoan the fact that decent materials are hard to come by in some places. A good teacher, of course, has a balanced approach to his/her classroom activities that are based on what will work in his/her situation.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Textbooks sit infront of a student like a big wall they have to overcome. Not only does the book create anxiety because of this, there is the sense that the students freedom is severely restricted by the presence of a text book. It, the BOOK, has anticipated everything the student needs to know and scheduled it all in neat concise chaptures. And, to add insult to injury, when the students don't want to learn under these restraints, they are to blame! BOOKS BELONG IN THE LIBRARY, NOT THE CLASSROOM! What belongs in the classroom are learning appliances. When we were children we enjoyed and learned from our toys, and as children become adults they grow to enjoy and learn from appliances. Good materials are not needed in the classroom, the teacher is the materials. What makes a good teacher better is not a textbook, but good appliances.

[Freaky Deaky]

[Chairman Roberto]

The standard textbook here, Integrated English, is of course, utterly dismal. So here I am, in Oral English class...I'm a native speaker, I mean, I'm the Real McCoy here folks. It doesn't get any more authentic than this, unless Queen Elizabeth herself shows up. But, some of these students still have their noses buried in their precious Integrated English or the laughable Oral Workshop textbooks. My solution? I snatch up the book and throw it across the room. You should hear the desks slamming as the students put away their godawful textbooks in 1 second flat. I'm telling you, these students learn fast. And their English is improving...if for no other reason than to save the dignity of their textbooks.

A precious gem from Integrated English:

The truth is ____ pure nor simple.

a) really b) either c) always d) than

Arrrrrgh!!!!! I had to argue with a so-called English teacher for ten minutes after I told her "All the answers are wrong. The answer is 'neither' ". She still doesn't believe me...I mean, it's in the HOLY FLIPPIN BIBLE, the Textbook That Cannot Be Questioned. Who am I to dispute our Lord and Master, the Textbook? I mean, I'm only a FLIPPIN' NATIVE SPEAKER who has taught English for five years, so what the hell do I know?? She was (and still is) convinced the answer is "a". Somebody shoot me.

I'm normally opposed to book burnings, but I'll make an exception for Chinese made English textbooks. Anybody have lighter fluid? I'll supply the paper...

[Egas]

Have to qualify the quote about "books belong in the library." That's fine if you are teaching conversation, but if you have a professional curriculum designed to facilitate optimal development of all aspects of language, various texts are essential (unless you want to design all your materials from scratch). I have a professional library here of about twenty texts, many of which have audio components (in this case, tapes). In any given week, I probably use about 10-15 of the texts. But I teach a foundation class that has to meet British university bachelor's degree standards. You can't do that by (only) doing "pair work", drama activities or playing hangman. You need specific texts to target identified language deficiencies. And that requires a strong knowledge of the English language and teaching, as well as the resource material.

[fat_chris]

[willy]

Well the subject of TW. or China? TW has very poor text books and the student�s are to memories them not learn from them. �The students need to read the book to their parents� many books are made by the schools; good idea then you can make $ by selling books too.
Here in Indonesia we have lots of good grammar books and that�s what I use them for grammar the rest is depend on the students needs.