Job Discussion Forums

naturegirl321 · Joined: 04 May 2003 Posts: 9041 Location: home sweet home

DO you negotiate with your contracts? Say the advert says the salary is 4-5K a month, but if you have qualifications and experience, how much more can you ask for? Is it likely that the school will simply say no and look for a cheaper teacher?

vikuk · Joined: 23 May 2007 Posts: 1842

naturegirl321 · Joined: 04 May 2003 Posts: 9041 Location: home sweet home

vikuk · Joined: 23 May 2007 Posts: 1842

if they were desperate for an FT then maybe they'd consider 8K - but then there are so many FT's around that would jump into a job for a lower price!!!! This is the fact of FT life if you're going to live here long-term (trying to be a long-term career China FT can be a frustrating affair in the face of cheap transient FT competition).
To be truthful - I'd be surprised if a school that offered 5k would go to 8k but maybe you could wring them for 6k.
Ask some of the people who regularly swap work about how higher a wage they can get through the power of bargaining.

william wallace · Joined: 14 May 2003 Posts: 2869 Location: in between

How much is enough ? 30,000 RMB per month..is it possible ? Not ESL in China,maybe not ESL anywhere..such is life

HunanForeignGuy · Joined: 05 Jan 2006 Posts: 989 Location: Shanghai, PRC

william wallace · Joined: 14 May 2003 Posts: 2869 Location: in between

I think the so-called negotiating thing is..lame ? over-hyped ? I worked for an IELTS school that paid 350RMB per hour, some folks negotiated for 400 RMB per hour. What do you think 5-6yearson the new IELTS teachers are negotiating for ? 150-175RMB, I would bet on it. Most schools are downright dodgy, and don't give a fiddlers F___about qualifications,and can get another white face(or any colour showman) with the next e-mailed CV.To really and truly negotiate,you need leverage, so what's the leverage ?They say 110 RMB an hour,and you demand 130...so you accept 125 RMB.

Same thing happens at shops. They ask 400RMB for the 60 RMB product, you "negotiate" it down to 160 RMB---------What was negotiated here ?

Why did they pay so much (IELTS school) ? For the omnipotent IELTS seasoned Examiner ? F___ No! The classes tended to have 50-200 students(suckers) each paying 3000 RMB for a 4 week course. We call that a loss leader in business.

naturegirl321 · Joined: 04 May 2003 Posts: 9041 Location: home sweet home

SnoopBot · Joined: 21 Jun 2007 Posts: 740 Location: USA

I think it is more based on timing, luck, and then experience + credentials come into play.

If you get a school that is going to be forced to refund the fee back to their students at loss, or accept offer to give you a better salary.

You are at an advantage, however at most universities the pay is pretty much fixed and at best you can get only a few extra hundred a month.

NatureG, a good degree is not required to teach oral English classes. Some places will photoshop a degree for you with your name on it to meet the requirements of the Z visa. Nobody cares or checks if it is fake or not. However, Native Speaking or White looking isn't as easily faked.

Experience counts more but again, it must be specialized in a money-making area.

If a school is lacking a FT to do IELTS or TOEFL prep and already has accepted the fees from 300 students at 4000 RMB for a 2 month session, they will lose big bucks if they end up refunding back these fees.

So the FT is in a good spot to squeeze a few thousand extra out of them. They (the school) will still make a big profit for offering these training classes.

Timing was essential here, the Chinese don't care if you have a Harvard or Oxford PhD in education and TESOL. You could get offered the same salary as a BA/BS holder.

Now, if you are at the right place and time, the better qualifications can make a difference.

I'm only telling the truth to those that think their advanced Western qualifications are important in China, they are not important. Maybe in other countries they are important, however in China they often do not mean anything and at best an extra 300 RMB a month.

I will tell you that having advanced credentials DO get you more work.

Who is going to get stuck meeting parents, going to events and doing the unpaid English corners?

1 Teacher A : Backpacker type , no degree or fake one, body piercings, creepy looking type

2. teacher B: Harvard University , business suit dressed, clean cut teacher type with a Harvard degree?

I will add both are getting the EXACT same pay, if the Harvard type has a Harvard MA Ed they would get the typical 300 RMB extra a month (= 2 trips for a pizza at pizza hut.)

Which one gets the shaft? Guess.. Who is the volunteer for every parading monkey show.

Anda · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 2199 Location: Jiangsu Province

SnoopBot is spot on, plus a lot of other material. I'll clear one thing up to Naturegirl321 but! Here in China there doesn't seem to be any real difference between private and government places. Now my college is happy with me. The first year I signed a contract that payed for the winter holiday and finished the 5th of this month. Their are stacks of these contracts here at Universerities and colleges. So this year they tried the same thing meaning the year would start on the 1 st of September and I said no go. So this summer holiday I do 6 classes a week for 4 weeks. The students pay and I get paid for the two month summer holiday break. So is life, but I'm quite happy with the deal. Did I ask for a rise? No.

I could go into more detail but it boils down to I won't be too greedy but you bend a bit too so leave me alone if I do a little extra work somewhere.

If you are too greedy one year, guess who will be replaced next year?

tw · Joined: 04 Jun 2005 Posts: 3898

I negotiated another 1000 RMB out of the new employer -- in exchange for teaching more hours. They started by offering 500 RMB more for the same number of hours, then I asked for another 500 RMB for 4 more hours a week. In the end, it will be the same salary package as the one I have now. However, since the cost of living in the new city is quite a bit higher, my savings will go down significantly if I am not careful.

eslstudies · Joined: 17 Dec 2006 Posts: 1061 Location: East of Aden

[quote="vikuk"]

KidfromBrooklyn · Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:18 am Post subject: How much is enough?

It is fair to say that many FT's are fooled into thinking that RMB4500 is enough to live on. It may be if you live in a cage and eat noodles and buy your vegetables at the market. (nothing wrong with that I do it myself) but consider the fact that some of us have wives and children. I have bought a house and need to furnish it. Has anyone looked at the price of furniture. Has anyone gone through the process of decorating the shell of a house when you buy it? Turn on the AC in the summer or turn on the heat in the winter and watch the difference in your electric bill.

What about a car? does anyone have a car? I do. Yearly inspection, gas, insurance, road tax fees. It adds up. So when a school offers me RMB4500 per month I have to think twice.

I wish the best to you all China has provided me with endless adventure. If you wish to work for RMB3000 and live in a dorm room God Bless you personally I wish to try for better. And a point that I don't understand for the life of me is.....what makes one FT attack another FT for wanting to do better. Like why do some absolutly INSIST the low pay is enough to live on?

vikuk · Joined: 23 May 2007 Posts: 1842

Kid - I have all that stuff as well.
The experience of actually living here - can be a great deal different than the Anda's and their pocket money type holiday stories � after all some of these folk, seem to be on a start early pensioners holiday. But then leading a house/car owning lifestyle can be rather difficult on the normal FT pay scale (luckily I don�t have to depend on my FT wages) - especially when the Anda's of the FT market � much to the pleasure of Chinese employers - are so blindly setting their own low pay standards!!!