Job Discussion Forums

China.Pete · Joined: 27 Apr 2006 Posts: 547

"Honestly, I don't think that I would like to teach in an international school." - Nature Girl

But in China it's one of the few jobs which routinely pays well, provided you've got a teachers certificate, and in which you are less likely to be summarily replaced for no good reason.

Nature Girl, regarding the flack you've drawn recently, if some people on this board offer you help, and you don't just jump all over it, they can get downright tetchy. Don't let this bother you. They may just be suffering from unrequited helpfulness. Wink

HunanForeignGuy · Joined: 05 Jan 2006 Posts: 989 Location: Shanghai, PRC

SnoopBot · Joined: 21 Jun 2007 Posts: 740 Location: USA

cj750s · Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 3:56 am Post subject:

China.Pete · Joined: 27 Apr 2006 Posts: 547

"I have not only worked at (international schools) but also have posted some of the problems associated with that employment." - CJ

I'm certainly not going to pretend that international schools are a panacea. They have management issues like any other place of employment in China. They also have at least some qualified teachers who bring certain expectations with them about how "real" schools are supposed to operate. I'm only saying that it may be a way for some FTs, like Nature Girl, to sidestep a career path of surplus qualifications and low or declining salaries that seem to be associated with so many ESL jobs in China. Like other FTs here, I have found that it's quite possible to cobble together a university and other part-time jobs in order to enjoy a fairly decent lifestyle in China. But, for someone with the right qualifications who wants to take a longer-term view, especially one with a family, I have to agree with Snoop's suggestion.

cj750s · Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 6:07 am Post subject:

HunanForeignGuy · Joined: 05 Jan 2006 Posts: 989 Location: Shanghai, PRC

To the kind posters,

Snoopbot is right to a large degree.

I have a post-graduate degree in the field and I am Montessori-certified.

University money in China is as low as it gets for me.

I will return to a junior middle school this autumn in a Montessori-like environment and I will be paid 3.5x what any university could offer me and I will be for the entire calendar year with full benefits.

NatureGirl, please stay in contact with me over the course of the coming year. If things work out for me, I will see what I can do to help you. We could also look around for the kind of a job that your husband needs. Any other comments, let's post them through PM -- keep TW's experience in mind always.

I am glad that this thread has returned to a more constructive tenor.

China.Pete · Joined: 27 Apr 2006 Posts: 547

"I will return to a junior middle school this autumn in a Montessori-like environment and I will be paid 3.5x what any university could offer me..." - HFG

Yes, there ARE a few schools out there that are getting better at marketing our pieces of paper; and, most unusually for China, are even willing to pay higher salaries in order to retain suitably qualified staff. Some of these are international schools. Too many public schools have grown accustomed to hiring FTs with doctorates, and paying them perhaps 4,000 RMB per month, even when their students in some special programs are being charged a fortune for the privilege.

naturegirl321 · Joined: 04 May 2003 Posts: 9041 Location: home sweet home

I see that International Schools have some advantages, I have certs in pre-school to grade 3, ESL K12 and Spanish K12. Money would be the main advantage, however, I remember on another thread people saying that teachers at IS usually work at lest 40 hours a week, more like 60. Plus, one of the reasons I want to go to China is to work with Chinese, not be working 100% with laoweis.

Maybe something in the middle would be a billingual school, Western and Chinese run. I've had a few PMs offering me info about schools up north and I'll be checking them out.

Thanks again

bdawg · Joined: 25 Feb 2004 Posts: 526 Location: Nanjing

waxwing · Joined: 29 Jun 2003 Posts: 719 Location: China

voodikon · Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 1363 Location: chengdu

interesting discussion, minus the snips and quibbles, and just thought i'd raise a few points of my own.

first, sorry to hear about your experience, tw. that's really unfortunate and just plain out sucky and lame, if i'm to be eloquent.

and on a related note, i'd like to just raise the issue for the OP--on the off-chance that he/she's still around--that criteria on which schools/companies/universities here make their hiring decisions might be extremely different from what you're accustomed to or are expecting. the reality is that for non-caucasian-featured people--particularly asian americans/canadians/europeans--finding work here is NOT the piece of cake that it is for many caucasians. i don't know the full story on this issue with tw as this is the first i've read about it, but being that he is chinese canadian, i would imagine that (and apologies if i'm putting words into your mouth, tw) for him to line up a job that meets/surpasses his expectations was a good deal more difficult than it would be for the average caucasian teacher here--entirely regardless of qualifications, experience, education, etc. so to have it be swooped in on by a fellow poster, i think, is particularly crushing to not only him but all of us who would like to see more qualifications-based hiring and compensation practices in this field.

add to this, as other posters have said, if we are working at or have worked at schools we consider decent and trustworthy, why, for the school's sake, would we refer any person who comes online seeking info to that school? you could be (and probably are) an excellent teacher, but the fact of the matter is, we don't know this in actuality. people i meet here in person frequently ask me for job leads; while i will offer advice on places to look for leads or even pass on contact information for jobs i hear of in passing, i would not refer just anybody to those employers with whom i have a good relationship. it shows, i think, mutual trust and respect.

so i hope that with that in mind you can understand the perspectives of some of the posters who have replied to you. as a final note, i think that by either reading online or even moving to china and talking to people who have been working as english teachers you will get a pretty solid understanding of the typical working conditions at the various types of institutions available to english teachers here. that sort of general information has been documented on this site alone countless times and is easily accessed via the search function. and, like hunanforeignguy pointed out, if you make contacts with universities/schools you're interested in, and have specific queries about them, posters here will generally be much more willing to provide you insight.

respectfully,
voodikon

HunanForeignGuy · Joined: 05 Jan 2006 Posts: 989 Location: Shanghai, PRC

Vooodikon,

Kudos! Your post on this thread is very, very on the mark and concise.

I am glad that you could understand some of our points -- no we are not selfish; no we are not egotistical; it's just as you wrote -- what risk we are taking and the good jobs are hard to come by.

And the OP has yet to make an appearance back in this thread.

HFG

naturegirl321 · Joined: 04 May 2003 Posts: 9041 Location: home sweet home

For my part, more money isn't more happines. I'm working 60 hour weeks now with three jobs so that I don't have to do it in the future. Leaving every day at 630 am and three times a week getting home at 5pm and twice a week at 830pm isn't my idea of fun.
If we play our cards right and can buy a couple of houses here in Peru, then we can rent out rooms to colelge students and have a steady income that would allow us to work less hours in China and spend more time together.

SnoopBot · Joined: 21 Jun 2007 Posts: 740 Location: USA