Job Discussion Forums

[scot47]

Native speakers can make spelling mistakes. I think most of us here forget just what the levels of illiteracy and semiliteracy are in the UK and US !

[Bob Gorn]

At the risk of getting flamed, I didn't take her posting as being a joke at all. I've taught women in the Gulf (not in KSA, obviously) and the attitude of the poster is a normal one. Westerners tend to see Muslim women as being "oppressed" but women in the Gulf become very angry at this kind of label. Muslim women aren't forced by men to wear the hijab -most of them wear abaya and hijab out of personal choice or religious devotion. They see themselves as having a lot of power within their own realm, and in fact most Gulf men will tell you that women have a lot of control over their own lives and the lives of their families. As for not being able to drive in KSA, many women do feel that this restriction is clearly un-Islamic and unnecessary, but not all of them are angry or resentful about it.

In other words, we cannot assume that these women are the miserable, oppressed, beaten down stereotypes that came out of the Taliban rule of Afghanistan. Most Muslim women are not waiting around helplessly for the West to free them from their burkhas and shackles. They don't want a Western woman's life or lifestyle.

[veiledsentiments]

[sheikh radlinrol]

I take your point Bob but Theeducator tells us that it is ''essential'' for shops to close 5 times so that Muslims can attend to their religious duties.
Why? In other countries they manage to do it without closing everything every couple of hours.
As for women not driving...if our friend prefers to be driven by a driver then that's her choice. Other ladies may feel differently, however.
The point about most expats in KSA being little more than slaves has already been made.
I referred to the OP as a joke because of the style and the fact that she doesn't even seem to know the spelling of the post she apparently holds.

[007]

[sheikh radlinrol]

Thanks for the comments 007. Let me point out, however, that the new smoking regulations in the UK affect everybody, don't single out any particular group and can't really be considered in the same light as the ban on Saudi women driving or any of the other restrictions imposed on them.

[Cleopatra]

Just thought I'd add - for the benefit of the majority of contributers to this board who have barely spoken to a Saudi women in their lives - that most of the young Saudi women I work with say they would not drive even if they were allowed to do so. They also point out that in other Gulf countries such as the UAE or Qatar, relatively few women drive even though they are legally free to do so.

Of course, that is not to say that those women who would like to drive should not be given the option to do so, simply that, as far as most Saudi women seem to be concerned, the driving ban is not the burning issue many expats and foreign 'journalists' consider it to be. Same goes for that other obsession of foreigners - "the veil".

BTW Sheikh, how many Saudi women have you discussed these issues with?

[scot47]

Well I am neither Saudi nor a woman but one thing is for sure - NO WAY will I get behind the wheel of a car in KSA !

But then I have the choice I suppose.

[veiledsentiments]

I rather felt that way in Kuwait, Scot47, but I still had a car even if I very much restricted my driving to necessary trips to limit risk as much as I could. It was mostly to get back and forth from work.

I have had a car since I was 15, and find it extremely claustrophobic not to have one and the freedom it provides. I'm not sure that you could really relate to that Cleo, as you never had a driving license as I recall... ?

But, I'd expect that few women in Saudi miss driving as it is something that most of them have never done anyway. One doesn't miss what one has never had.

VS

[007]

[Bob Gorn]

[sheikh radlinrol]

Cleopatra asks how many Saudi women I have discussed the matter of driving with. The answer is ONE! And she said she WOULD like to drive her own car.
In any case the number is irrelevant. Let me ask you a question now. Are we not allowed to express opinions about injustice unless we have actually met a number of the victims of that injustice and discussed the issue with them in person? Am I not allowed to discuss the plight of the unfortunate people of Zimbabwe or North Korea because I've never been anywhere near those countries? We used to protest against Apartheid even if we'd never met a South African black and listened to his grievances.

[Cleopatra]

As I've said, I'm not defending the driving ban and, like most 'liberal' young Saudi women, I definitely believe that women should have the same right to drive as men do. I also think that the driving ban will be overturned, or at least mitigated, in the next few years, even though the 'buzz' in the state-run Saudi press about the silliness of the ban seems to have died down of late. This may indicate that the time is not yet ripe for such a 'radical' move.

But my point is that, while the ban is obviously unfair, most Saudi women do not perceive it a major obstacle. Even if it were overturned tomorrow, it is likely that most Saudi women would still choose not to drive - or their families would forbid them from so doing. This is because of the general taboo about women being 'unescorted' in public, and because many people genuinely fear for the safety of women driving alone. As I've said, most of the young women I teach say they do not want to drive - a few have said that the only thing they'd change in the event of the ban being lifted would be to hire a female driver instead of a male one.

And yes, you're right, VS, I have never driven anywhere, which is probably why I share my students' lack of urgency on this issue. To be honest, I'm quite happy to live in a country which is set up for women not driving. Life is actually easier for me when there is no expectation that I should drive.

[007]

[007]