Job Discussion Forums

dave_merk · Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 208

I think that when it comes to documents, especially the FEC (which is basically the key to getting all the other documents), it really isn't "you must be XXX years old" or "you must have a BA." Really it's "whoever the FAO leader says is a Foreign Expert is a Foreign Expert." For FTs who don't meet all the requirements, the FAO or SAFEA will usually examine them on a case-by-case basis and make a decision based on their feelings of the applicant. In other words, if you don't have a degree or some other detail you still do have a chance provided a few other things are in order (your health, that you're working for a legit place, etc).

On a somewhat related tip: how come everyone always describes SAFEA as having "no teeth?" I mean, they DO issue the FECs (at least they do up here), right? And without an FEC your RPF app is pretty much dead in the water. And it's been my experience that the PSB usually takes its marching orders from SAFEA when it comes to problems with issuing resident permits and all that. The PSB doesn't adjudicate who is and isn't qualified to teach in China. That's all SAFEA and the FAO.

HunanForeignGuy · Joined: 05 Jan 2006 Posts: 989 Location: Shanghai, PRC

HunanForeignGuy · Joined: 05 Jan 2006 Posts: 989 Location: Shanghai, PRC

therock · Joined: 31 Jul 2005 Posts: 1266 Location: China

7969 · Joined: 26 Mar 2003 Posts: 5782 Location: Coastal Guangdong

dave_merk · Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 208

arioch36 · Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 3589

I think what Merk says goes to the heart of the problem. For a lot of issues, the bureaus in the provinces do things their way, guanxi, tradition, one's persons interpretations. And this is true in the U.S. as well. New commissioner, new interpretation of the rules

Other things are set in stone, or the writing is on the wall. I don't trust any person or any institution in any province that say to arrive in China on an L/F visa, no problem to convert to Z. A real school with the right to hire you, that isn't on the Bureau's "crap list" will have no problem iissuing the invitation if you are from OZ, UK, US or Canada. It has become much more difficult for certain other nationalities (Nigeria, etc)

My two cents is that it is a fellow laowai recruiter jerking this guy

Some provinces, the PSB and Education offices are more territorial then others. So I can say I know fairly Henan well. The best office to work with here might be different in another province.

I know here in Henan, many schools have teachers with no experience. I would actually say youth (20-25) and no teaching experience, or any long term work experience (a well as the school's willingness to take advantage of such) is a common problem area, so if I was Beijing, I would probably consider the two year work experience guideline a good one

PS, I never really asked much, but I guess each district has its own offices, not just the capital city of the province. But most of us teach in the provincial capital's district, which is usually pretty large, containing the vast majority of the colleges

SnoopBot · Joined: 21 Jun 2007 Posts: 740 Location: USA

Beijing market really is bad right now. Glut in teachers, lower wages and I feel is connected with everyone wanting to see the Olympics.

Three things are happening here:

1. They are actually being pressured from someone higher up as the rules for 2 years experience do exist But never enforced until now due to the Olympics.

2. The found someone else (Cheaper )and your just extra now and will be treated as such. (They still want you)

3. They want to save money and the original game plan was to Change the game plan on you to accept a lower wage or conditions because they can use this 2 year rule to save a few RMB. (Once you get 2 years experience your pay will go up) Think training wage

For the guy only hiring those with a PhD I find this basically dumb. A person with a PhD in some unrelated field doesn't have any edge over a real MA Ed TESOL type that has taken a real TESOL related program.

And not to put down those Lawyers with a JD that can claim they have a Doctorate degree, Law school is 3 years long

A real MA Ed program is 3 years long too, 2 years classroom instruction and 1 year research + practicum (Actual evaluated teaching)

I feel this 3 year program superior to those with a JD, unless the students are actually involved in Law and the subject is legal based.

Here we go again, to get a 5000 RMB a month job in Beijing you must now have a MD, JD or PhD.

While those with a BAEd, Ma Ed/TESOL are going to be not considered qualified by these yahoo's doing the recruiting with some dodgy Online PhD.

Maybe it's time for me to pay $50 for a dodgy PhD.

(Sorry to appear Rude here, but I see the TESOL industry in China getting to the ridiculous stage)