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RingofFire
Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Posts: 43
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 Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 4:00 am Post subject: CELTA and Masters in TESOL |
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I've been lurking for a few years ever since I started teaching English, and I just wanted to post because I wanted to clarify a few things. It seems that when people recommend getting certification/credentials/etc., two that float to the top are the CELTA and a Masters in TESOL. They don't seem interchangeable to me; one seems to lean towards the practical while another towards the theoretical, even if both are intended for teacher training.
Are they, in fact, interchangeable? If they are not, do employers in Japan view them as fundamentally different? Is one ultimately more beneficial than the other and does each lead to different career paths?
As an aside, I should have one of the two very soon, but to avoid slanting the topic I won't say which. In any case, thanks in advance! |
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Sherri
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 749
Location: The Big Island, Hawaii
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 5:07 am Post subject: |
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I have both. I was not and am not interested in teaching children and generally both of these quals focus on teaching adults.
The CELTA is practical and I am glad that I did it. It made me a better teacher. It helped me find jobs in Europe and it helped me land a job in Japan which I ended up enjoying--for almost 10 years. It was not a university but the work was significantly more than what is required from an average conversation school or ALT.
An MA TESOL will help you in Japan if you want to teach in a university or college.
The MA helped me look at my teaching more reflectively and to understand the research and theory that is behind the method. I am glad I did it after having practical experience. I think it would be very hard for a novice teacher to know how to apply the theory.
As an employer in Japan, overall, I prefered CELTAs over MAs (assuming both had relevant experience). The CELTAs really seemed to know what to do in the classroom. In the end it comes down to the individual teacher though. Now in the US, I have to hire people with MAs in TESOL because of accreditation standards. The CELTA would not cut it.
I think most conversation school employers do not really care if you had an additional qualification, and they would not be that aware of any differences.
What kind of work are you interested in? |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 7:05 am Post subject: |
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They are totally different animals.
CELTA is a certificate you get from training through Cambridse ESOL.
http://www.cambridgeesol.org/teaching/celta.htm
A master's degree in TESOL (or any subject) is what you get from attending a university (any university) for a couple of years and writing a thesis.
If you don't have a master's degree, you are likely not to get your foot in the door of a Japanese university, even if you have a CELTA certificate. |
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womblingfree
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 826
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 3:29 pm Post subject: Re: CELTA and Masters in TESOL |
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| RingofFire wrote: |
CELTA and a Masters in TESOL
Are they, in fact, interchangeable? |
In Japan
A CELTA has little to no value in Japan except at a very small number of British Council accredited schools. CELTA is a very basic TEFL certificate and is not comparable to a Masters degree in any way.
If settling in Japan is your aim then an MA should be considered as it can open doors to university jobs.
To teach at international schools a B.ed or PGCE are required.
I've never heard of a non-Japanese teacher doing the Japanese government endorsed teaching licence, but it's probably possible. Absolutely impossible without permanent residency and a near fluent command of the language though I suspect.
In Europe
If you want to teach EFL in Europe you will need a TEFL/CELTA or equivalent certificate regardless of whether you have an MA. It's a basic requirement due to the cartel that accredits most schools. The schools sell TEFL and CELTA to teachers, and courses to students. Two sources of revenue.
Again, for professional teacher status a B.Ed or PGCE is required. These vary within European states and teachers must apply for certification relevant to the country they are in. This may require additional courses.
In America
For EFL if you have the right MA it's unlikely that you will be required to have a TEFL or CELTA as well.
As far as professional teacher status goes it varies from state to state, as in Europe. Generally a relevant four or five year B.Ed is required or a professional post-grad teaching certificate/diploma. When moving from one state to another you must re-register or possibly do another course to meet that states requirements.
In reality
If you want to be a professional teacher you need to do a government endorsed teacher training course like a B.Ed or PGCE.
CELTA/TEFL/DELTA will not give you qualified teacher status, just allow work at private conversation schools.
MA's (in TEFL & Applied Linguistics) are high level academic qualifications, although some do incorporate practical teaching practise as well, but are really most suited to those who already hold teacher training certificates or those that wish to pursue a life of academia.
Really if you have been accepted onto an MA course in Applied Linguistics or TEFL you are usually required to have three years teaching experience anyway so the idea that one should then be required to do an entry level CELTA afterwards is absurd. An MA in AL/TEFL with experience should be more than enough to teach at private language schools. It is not in itself enough for professional teacher status though. |
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Henry_Cowell
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 3352
Location: Berkeley
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 6:29 pm Post subject: Re: CELTA and Masters in TESOL |
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| RingofFire wrote: |
| As an aside, I should have one of the two very soon, but to avoid slanting the topic I won't say which. |
If you are really in the process of obtaining either a CELTA or a master's degree, you would surely know the difference between the two -- as well as the admission process and syllabus/requirements for each. |
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RingofFire
Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Posts: 43
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 10:30 pm Post subject: Re: CELTA and Masters in TESOL |
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| Henry_Cowell wrote: |
| If you are really in the process of obtaining either a CELTA or a master's degree, you would surely know the difference between the two -- as well as the admission process and syllabus/requirements for each. |
I appreciate that this board gets a lot of dumb questions and that some of the more cynical users around here are trigger happy with expressing their doubts and can't wait to exercise their powers of deduction, but womblingfree and Sherri answered with exactly what I needed to know.
To them, I say thanks for the help. I am mostly interested in teaching at the university level someday, but before then I figure I'll need more experience than whatever I have now, but I decided to back away from teaching for a bit to get credentials so I can re-enter, try again and work my way up from there. I'm aware that CELTA is quite beneficial for practical purposes, which is why I'm surprised employers in Japan beyond conversation schools don't take it more seriously, but I guess that just explains the hype schools offering CELTA courses give it. I think it's also important to advise new teachers, as Sherri said, that additional qualifications won't really help in most conversational schools, though it might prove beneficial for everything that comes after that. Same with an MA, except now I'm quite sure it leads to a different career path than one for teachers holding a CELTA.
To Henry Cowell, I would say thanks for any kindness you were trying to offer but that I didn't pick up on. Maybe I'll happen upon your trust next time. |
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markle
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Posts: 1316
Location: Out of Japan
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 11:32 pm Post subject: Re: CELTA and Masters in TESOL |
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| RingofFire wrote: |
| I think it's also important to advise new teachers, as Sherri said, that additional qualifications won't really help in most conversational schools, though it might prove beneficial for everything that comes after that. |
CELTA may not help in hiring in Japan but your conversation school students will be grateful for the fact that you have some basic understanding of the priniples of teaching, how to conduct a lesson etc rather than just stepping off the street.
| Quote: |
| Same with an MA, except now I'm quite sure it leads to a different career path than one for teachers holding a CELTA. |
I'd say less of a different career path than a different stage of a teaching career. CELTA is aimed at entry level teachers just stepping into the classroom. MA AP/TESOL is for those who have been kicking around for awhile and want to move onwards and upwards. |
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RingofFire
Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Posts: 43
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 11:42 pm Post subject: Re: CELTA and Masters in TESOL |
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| markle wrote: |
| CELTA may not help in hiring in Japan but your conversation school students will be grateful for the fact that you have some basic understanding of the priniples of teaching, how to conduct a lesson etc rather than just stepping off the street. |
My feeling is that both a CELTA and an MA are both more or less equally beneficial in different ways in terms of equipping teachers with insight to help students, so that's not really an issue as far as I'm concerned. The question is how differently employers perceive the difference in effect, both in terms of hiring and promotion. An awfully selfish question, but still important. |
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womblingfree
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 826
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| Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 1:07 am Post subject: Re: CELTA and Masters in TESOL |
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| RingofFire wrote: |
| My feeling is that both a CELTA and an MA are both more or less equally beneficial in different ways in terms of equipping teachers with insight to help students, so that's not really an issue as far as I'm concerned. The question is how differently employers perceive the difference in effect, both in terms of hiring and promotion. |
Not the same thing at all. Having a CELTA will get you a basic job at a private language school teaching conversation classes at minimum wage (for EFL). Not even needed in Asia at all, although Markle's right that it might benefit your students more than walking in off the street.
An MA will allow you to lecture your specialism in applied linguistics in your own country (if you went to a good university and did well) and will allow promotion to Director of Studies at a private language school alongside relevant experience and/or qualifications. It wil also greatly benefit professionally qualified teachers if they are looking for a pay rise.
Think of CELTA as a brick and the MA as a house and you'll get the idea.
Last edited by womblingfree on Mon Aug 06, 2007 2:27 am; edited 1 time in total |
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slodziak
Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 143
Location: Tokyo
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| Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 1:39 am Post subject: Re: CELTA and Masters in TESOL |
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| womblingfree wrote: |
An MA will allow you to lecture your specialism in applied linguistics in your own country (if you went to a good university and did well) and will allow promotion to Director of Studies at a private language school alongside relevant experience and/or qualifications. |
In the UK you will also need a DELTA or Diploma if you wish to lecture. |
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womblingfree
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 826
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| Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 2:25 am Post subject: Re: CELTA and Masters in TESOL |
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| slodziak wrote: |
| In the UK you will also need a DELTA or Diploma if you wish to lecture. |
It depends.
If you want to lecture Discourse Analysis, TEFL theory or any other related field of applied linguistics to undergraduates then the MA or a Phd is all that matters.
EFL/ESL teachers at university are accepted with a CELTA or DELTA, but they mainly teach pre-sessional courses in academic English and have nothing to do with degree level study.
If you want to teach ESL/EFL at a private language school then a CELTA will do. A DELTA will advance your career in that sector though.
A CELTA/DELTA will allow you to lecture ESL/EFL at state colleges, but now (in the UK) you must also do a Level 4 certificate in ESL/EFL if you want to keep your job. Cambridge have various CELTA and DELTA extension programmes to accomodate this. From 2010 only a PGCE will be accepted from new applicants at state colleges in the UK.
CELTA and DELTA are really for private language school teachers as an unofficial international benchmark for employers. They carry no official status in state schools, colleges or universities. |
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Chris21
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 366
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 3:13 am Post subject: |
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| Lecturing Discourse Analyisis and TEFL theory to Japanese undergrads in English class? Are you serious? |
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womblingfree
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 826
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| Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 3:40 am Post subject: |
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| Chris21 wrote: |
| Lecturing Discourse Analyisis and TEFL theory to Japanese undergrads in English class? Are you serious? |
I was talking about as a lecturer on an applied linguistics or TEFL undergraduate course, not for an EFL class.
Having said that many English majors at overseas universities are required to study elements of discourse analysis as part of their studies. That's why an MA or Phd are necessary to lecture rather than a teacher training course.
It's usually at a fairly rudimentary level, although that'll depend on the class. |
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slodziak
Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 143
Location: Tokyo
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| Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 5:34 am Post subject: Re: CELTA and Masters in TESOL |
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| womblingfree wrote: |
A CELTA/DELTA will allow you to lecture ESL/EFL at state colleges, but now (in the UK) you must also do a Level 4 certificate in ESL/EFL if you want to keep your job. Cambridge have various CELTA and DELTA extension programmes to accomodate this. From 2010 only a PGCE will be accepted from new applicants at state colleges in the UK.
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Just to add that some British universities including Reading, Nottingham, Exeter and Bristol will allow you dispensation from between 30 to 60 credits on their MEd, MSc and MA courses if you have the Diploma - that could be a dissertations worth of credit! |
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womblingfree
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 826
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| Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 11:42 am Post subject: Re: CELTA and Masters in TESOL |
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| slodziak wrote: |
| Just to add that some British universities including Reading, Nottingham, Exeter and Bristol will allow you dispensation from between 30 to 60 credits on their MEd, MSc and MA courses if you have the Diploma - that could be a dissertations worth of credit! |
This is true. It usually means you can skip a module or two, which usually amounts to a couple of essays over the course. The same applies to doing a PGCE if you have a City & Guilds in teaching assistance.
It's called accreditation of prior learning (APL).
I doubt you'd ever get away without having to write a dissertation though, I'd be suspicious of a course that allowed this. |
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