Job Discussion Forums

[Roger2007]

Dear All,
Okay, I've finally managed to piece together my cumulative replies. I've replied to them in situ, as I felt it was best to view the coments in context. It hasn't come out exactly as I wanted it, due to having been interrupted so many times with power cuts, as you know, interim travel, then a complete general strike all over Jammu yesterday, coupled with the server having been down all over Jammu & Kashmir for the past 4 days. Today, I'm lucky, despite three power fluctuations already, causing the two other machines I tried to crash completely. You know this has to be true, because I wouldn't dare try to con anyone with anything as far fetched as all this!

Some of the replies to individuals come across as repetitive, repetitive, repetitive, because I felt it's been necessary to outline the crucial points at the risk of being redundant. Re. others, I've merely requested the reader to refer to an above section, already replied to. Please forgive any spelling mistakes. The keyboards are 'sticky' 7 sometimes miss the beat. I've checked through it generally, but I'm getting a little exhausted by now, with the heat, etc.

Right, now I'll try to send the whole weighty piece, & hope it's all not too much for the server & the Indian network to transfer en masse. Here goes:

[Roger2007]

Henry_Cowell



Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 2813 Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 9:29 pm Post subject:



Before you decide to travel to India (or to any other country whose culture you are not yet familiar with), it's always best to read up on problems in intercultural communication and behavior.

Things abroad will not always be the way they are in your home country or in countries with which you're already familiar.

Reply: I've lived & travelled in India/Nepal for more than 6 years in total, so it's not a case of not being familiar with cultures & customs here. What has been a first with me is dealing with an Indian company on the cyber & global stage, & discovering that frequently unreliable local & national ways have extended onto this global platform. I'm perfectly aware that when asking the same question to different people, you're liable to get many different answers. However, it's not a good way when dealing with people globally. What matters, is getting the job done & being straightforward. (End of reply)

Welcome to the real world! It just keeps getting bigger and bigger, doesn't it?

Reply: No, it doesn't. Drop the perceived sage-like philosophising, Henry. (End of reply)

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danielita



Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 220
Location: the devil's furnace, Oaxaca Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 11:08 pm Post subject:



Hi Roger,
Sorry to hear you had such a bad experience with Spectrum/Microsoft Bangalore. I do feel an need to offer a different experience with Spectrum/Microsoft. I also applied for the same position through Spectrum and my experience was quite different. I emailed my CV to Spectrum and I did initially wait a few weeks to hear back from Roshni. She then emailed me regarding my candidature and we set up a phone interview, followed by a second one (all set up quickly and conducted on time). The third interview was to be conducted with Brian at Microsoft as well and like in your experience he was traveling at the time however we were able to fix up a time for a phone interview (albeit 2 weeks later). Brian actually called me about 30 minutes earlier than expected (5:00AM) but fortunately I was already awake and ready for the interview.
During this process I was also seeking and interviewing for other positions.
Microsoft was conducting reference checks when I received a different job offer and decided it was a better fit for me. I emailed Roshni to let her know that I wished to remove my name from the competition. Now, I did find it strange that she never responded, but I assumed that she was just quite busy and didn't have time to respond. Spectrum Consulting does recruiting for other companies than Microsoft.

Reply: So, it would appear that Roshni might have a history of negligent behaviour. Is this just the tip of the iceberg? (End of reply)


You may have just hit a cultural wall and perhaps someone with more experience in Indian culture could back me up on this assumption that Indians do not like to say "no" to people and her evasive tactics were more cultural than intentional on her part.

Reply: I'm glad things worked out for you Danielita. Re. cultural differences, please refer to the reply to JP. (End of reply)


D
_________________
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts --Mark Twain

Reply: The above quote by Mr. Twain is very naive. Travel can be instrumental in the springing up of bigotry, depending on the quality of experience in certain parts. I've met two people recently in West Bengal, who've been travelling quite extensively in Asia, & have said some very uncomplimentary things about Indians down on the plains, when compared with the Bengali hill people. I won't repeat what was said, yet I could understand their reactions to such behaviour. I had everything stolen the first time I came to India, in 1983, & it left a very bitter taste for weeks after returning to Britain; not wanting to go again, so much so that my memory blocked down for a while. Yet, despite the major negative experience, I became enamoured again with India & its cultures. Though not its corruption-culture, which everyone here complains about at some time or another. Mark Twain should have travelled more before considering making such a sweeping statement. Incidentally, he believed in reincarnation also, & related many tales seen in dreams. I f anyone would like to know the details of how my luggage was stolen, as it was done quite cleverly, & I�m sure it must still be used now if it works so well, just drop me your email address, either as a PM here, or at: [email protected] It might help you at some point or another when travelling here. (End of reply)

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jpvanderwerf2001



Joined: 02 Oct 2003
Posts: 381
Location: Vladivostok, Russia Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 11:21 pm Post subject:



Having worked with Sharad and the people at Spectrum from 2004-2005, I have to agree with what Henry Cowell said: You have to appreciate that India is not the US, Canada, Europe, et al, and that things work with a different idea of "timeliness". This is not necessarily unprofessional in terms of Indian business. Perhaps it's not ideal, but it's simply a fact.

Reply: Dear JP, when dealing on a global stage, there is no room for quaint local or national cultural ways. A company & its staff either do what they say, or they discredit themselves & the company they work for. Both Roshni & the other worker Pradeep Krishnaswarmy, & Veronica Jordan (not Indian) were disingenous, & they know it. We should say what we mean, & do what we say. The people cited did neither.

Furthermore, & this is crucial to the complaint made: both Ms. Roshni & Mr. Sharad Dhawan have conceded wrong having been committed on the part of Spectrum International. Mr. Dhawan called Roshni to account, & when he discovered she had lied to him, he admitted it. Please read the following, from his initial reply to me:

"The hiring process includes an interview by the client. The Client Manager was traveling overseas during the period and coordinating a time between him and you became difficult and was compounded by all of us being in different time zones. When my colleague, Ms. Roshni managed to fix up a time for this interview, she called you. This was in October 2006. You told her then that you were no longer interested in this position."

Reply: A complete & utter lie, & admission through deed of her wrong-doing. Furthermore, his email continued:

"Over the years, we have received over 900 responses from the ads that we have posted on TEFL. Of these we have extended offers to 42 applicants of whom 32 have already joined us. Many of them have sought and got second contracts with us. It is not our intention to be unprofessional or snub any applicant."

Reply: Yet I was snubbed, nonetheless, after all the faithful waiting. Is this kind of behaviour not uncommon for them? Seriously.

"In your case the process has got delayed and we regret any inconvenience that it may have caused you.

This is an isolated case which has inconvenienced you. I sincerely regret this and hope that you do not make an impression about Spectrum based on this."

Reply: Thus Mr. Dhawan has conceded wrong on the part of his company & employee(s) in word. Therefore, the perceived view that dealing with this, or other Indian companies, has to be done with the view in mind that it is India etc., is completely invalid. Operating on a global stage, Spectrum failed to come up to common standards of doing business, & has thus discredited itself as a trustworthy concern. This could always be amended. On a global stage, they should say what they mean, & do what they say. they failed with me & possibly others.

And to reiterate, Roshni herself has conceded guilt through deed, as she knew she had done wrong & lied about her conduct to get away with it. It's a fact.

Furthermore, I know that Spectrum has done wrong because I was on the end of this unreasonable behaviour; given assurances which were subsequently not honoured & not being duly notified, which any candidate has a right to. Then having played straight with the company concerned, evaded & snubbed when making consequent enquiries, & then lied about. This behavior is disreputable & unjustifiable.

Mr Dhawan replied, to my information regarding Roshni & her deviousness, with this statement:

Dear Mr. Pickering,
"Thank You for this additional information. I think lying is a serious issue and deserves disciplinary action.I will keep you informed on the outcome of this issue."

Reply: Therefore, the above admissions by these people of Indian nationality & culture, know, & have admitted to this behavior being wrong. Let's be clear about this. Thus your view about:

"You have to appreciate that India is not the US, Canada, Europe, et al, and that things work with a different idea of "timeliness". This is not necessarily unprofessional in terms of Indian business. Perhaps it's not ideal, but it's simply a fact."

Reply: - I�m afraid to say, is completely invalid. These wrongs have been admitted to, though not apologised for. (End of reply)

I must say that, during my time in Bangalore, the Spectrum people were as forthright as can be culturally expected. In fact, in retrospect, Sharad and the staff at Spectrum literally bent over backwards to accommodate the b*tching and moaning so often exhibited by its non-Indian employees. Sharad himself is a sincere and professional manager who "gets it", and does anything he can to make foreign workers' lives easier.

Reply: I take what you say as the truth. Yet to date, despite my trust in Mr. Dhawan's word, there has been no update about the promised outcome on this issue. (End of reply)

Things will not always be easy. It is India.

Reply: Again JP, please read the above points. Another important point is, to excuse disingenuity & outright dishonesty on the grounds that it is the Indian way, is insulting to straightforward Indians who also have to put up with corruption & so on, on a frequent basis. It's tantamount to saying "Oh well, Roshni is untrustworthy & dishonest, but then, she's Indian, so should forgive her because that�s her cultural makeup." is a plain racist view. It might be founded in good-intent, yet the sub-text of what is said is very ugly & unfair. (End of reply)

It's disappointing that you had a bad experience Roger2007, but for others reading this: don't let it scare you away. Spectrum does its best to assist their employees, especially considering the inherent obstacles of doing business--and living, in India.

Good luck to all.
_______________

Reply: Despite having disagreed with you on several important points here JP, I understand your intent to be balanced & fair to both sides, & I salute you on this. Your intent is honourable. Good for you. However, save your sympathy & understanding for people who deserve it. These people don't. They've been trying to get away with what they can. This is why I've gone public - to name & shame the guilty parties. The above cited admissions have vindicated me on this. (End of reply)

Last edited by jpvanderwerf2001 on Fri May 04, 2007 11:36 pm; edited 1 time in total


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Stephen Jones



Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 2544 Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 11:23 pm Post subject:



You sat in England for months waiting for a possible telephone call,

Reply: Correction: there was no "possible" about it. I had already completed the 2nd interview stage, & was promised the 3rd. You can't get more definite than that. Furthermore it would certainly have happened if I had been dealing with straightforward people, but I wasn't to know at the time just how disingenuous they were/are. (End of reply)

and then think it is the fault of the people who were too busy to call! ROFL

Reply: Correction: Your rationale here is ridiculous. It is Roshni's job to arrange & do interviews, as she had already done, then chose not to, & lie about, later. Be clear on this. What you are saying is � �..just because she/they were too busy to do their job(s)...� Yes, I am blaming them for their misconduct, but your confused thinking gives you a different conclusion. (End of reply)

If there was nothing else holding you in England, then you should have gone to India, and given Spectrum your Indian mobile number when you arrived. You could even have bought an Indian mobile chip in the UK and let them know the number before you set out.

Reply: That�s a good point, & one which I didn�t think of at the time, yet if I had, I would still have elected to stay put, & thus be easily contactable, & as stated above, it would have occurred if dealing with trustworthy, reliable people. This staff person Roshni, is anything but, as is the other one, Pradeep Krishnaswarmy, also working in Spectrum, when making his broken assurances about �..looking into the matter", then doing effectively nothing. (End of reply)

If you had been offered a job and they cut you dead then you would have grounds for complaint, but when all you've been told is that they'll phone you back to make an interview, you haven't really a leg to stand on.

Reply: I'm afraid to contradict you in saying I have every leg to stand on, & more, as the guilty have admitted to their sins. Read above, & keep reading it until it penetrates your consciousness. You are out to defend the guilty at all costs with your confused rationale. Where were you when your parents & teachers taught you the difference between right & wrong? (End of reply)

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dennis45



Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 1 Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 11:44 pm Post subject:



I'm at a loss to understand what the complaint is here!

Reply: Read the above replies. (End of reply)

So you applied
for a job he saw advertised at tefl.com (it could easily have been
Dave's jobs, another site, the NY Times, whatever...). These guys
Spectrum then appear to have dragged their feet in getting back to you

Reply: Correction: They didn't reply at all, then all the games were played. Hence the blog. Understand that. (End of reply)

and then probably decided they did not want you! It happens all the
time.. instead of a courteous rejection note, they just chuck your app
in the bin.

Reply: Roshni knew I was waiting for her reply, as I'd made it clear to her in writing. Furthermore, she had taken the initiative to email, asking me if I was still interested in the job & requested my reply, which I sent her. There's no excuse for her dishonesty. She knows this because she's never offered a defence for herself, even though I sent Spectrum a copy & paste of the blog site where I'd named & shamed her, among others. It's a tacit admission of guilt, & you just don't see it. (End of reply)

It's probably happened to me dozens of times, so what's the
big deal?

Reply: You have no proof of this, hence the supposition only. However, if it is true, then it's a sad indication of how pathetic companies' standards have slipped, & what an uncertain mess we're in. Yet this has to be proven as the norm, & until then, we'll keep to this, particular proven issue only.


The big deal is, it's about broken assurances, not being duly notified, being evaded & snubbed when making due inquires, then being lied about. If you don't think this is a big deal Dennis, then re-read my replies to Peter, above. Honesty & straightforwardness are absolutely crucial & critical in life. The more people make light of dishonesty, then the deeper the quagmire we slide into, until we view opposite parties in constant suspicion & uncertainty. Honesty is important. Never forget that. (End of reply)

Should we be shooting the messenger here? Dave, tefl.com and
loads of other sites provide us with cool job services, so should we
really start bad-mouthing them in public because one of their
advertisers fails to respond to an application?.

Reply: I completely agree about how effective & convenient these online sites & tools are. This Sperling site is really very impressive, as I think TEFL.com�s is also. However, I take exception to being mislead by Veronica Jordan & her insincere �mission statement� line about:

�We view complaints against any of our registered employers very seriously.�

simply because it sounds good., then failing to act in accordance with it. She should have stated her case, honestly, & have done with it. It only takes 2 minutes to mail someone that they�ve gone as far as they can/are prepared o go, rather than just blatantly snubbing the person concerned. It�s an indication of her mentality. (End of reply)

Come on Roger, let's get real here! The problem clearly was with Spectrum.

Reply: Dennis, your mail is confused. First you make out as though there's nothing wrong with Spectrum's conduct, then you do.

I named & shamed Veronica Jordan specifically, because she took charge of the issue, yet merely forwarded the mail of complaint, then did nothing after but fob me off with assurances of having sent it, then snub me, when all I'd done was ask as to what the situation was. She was doing a Roshni. It's fair ground for complaint, make no mistake about it. Ms. Jordan knows I have blogged & complained about her disingenuous (that word again) conduct, & to date, has offered no case for her defence. Clearly, she knows she's in the wrong, yet chooses to say nothing. She deserves my complaint, as I deserve to make it against these kind of people. (End of reply)

. the tefl.com guys were
under no obligation to even answer your complaint but it appears they
were trying to help you. Is it any wonder they now probably ignore you?

Reply: The only thing Veronica Jordan did was to forward my complaint to Spectrum, while mouthing insincerities about taking employer abuse seriously. I can do without that kind of glib truth abuse. She now knows that. (End of reply)

Time to grow up Roger and get a life..

Reply: And it's time for you, Dennis, to wake up out of your casual indifference & recognise dishonesty & insincerity when it's right in front of your eyes. Indifference to this crookedness is not the way, just because �You're alright, Jack�. Come on out of your complacency & support the cause of straightforwardness & non-abuse of others. (End of reply)

if u want a job in some Indian
call center, then go for it and quit moaning that yar hard done to.

Reply: And just how is that possible if it means having to rely on staff with quality of characters such as these in order to make applications (remembering that Spectrum & TEFL.com are essentially conduits through which these client companies are contacted through). It just won't happen, as they've been so untrustworthy for so long, in this particular case. Please be clear on this. If I could apply directly to these companies concerned, I would do just that, however, the contact addresses are known only to the agencies, & they are giving nothing away. (End of reply)

Den

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davina m



Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 1 Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 8:20 pm Post subject:



You need an advisor!

Having read your 'complaint' - the most charitable name I can afford your tirade, it is my opinion that you are genuinely in need of some professional advice.

From the 'evidence' you have published, there is nothing to support your accusation that the company in question is fraudulent, their only fault apparently having been to take a long time to acknowledge your correspondence regarding a job application.

Reply: Correction: They didn't bother to get back to me at all, despite the assurances; be absolutely clear on this crucial point. Had they had got back to me, there would have been no complaint whatsoever, whether or not I had been successful in my application. As it was, the assurances made were not honoured, my time was completely wasted due to their insincerity, I was evaded, amounting to being snubbed, then lied about. Is it so obvious that I have to point it out to you, Davina?

Mr. Dhawan replied to me only after I had blogged the complaint about his staff & organisation�s misconduct & sent notification to him. Furthermore, when he became aware of this case, he then believed the lies told to him by his subordinate, Roshni, when he called her to account - something she was desperate to avoid, because she knew she had been abusive toward this applicant. As pointed out above, she admitted guilt through deed. If she was in the right, then she wouldn't have lied in order to cover up for herself. Let�s be absolutely clear on this. (End of reply)

As for accusing the advertising organisation of knowledge of this apparent (non-existent) fraud when their only fault was to try and help you, puts you in an even more precarious position. Namely, you might quite reasonably be sued for libel, depending on the jurisdiction to which you as an individual are liable and also that of where your accusations were published.

Reply: I said that the accused person is Veronica Jordan �

�TEFL.com, through the staff person, Veronica Jordan�

(read the above blog text for verification) & I stand by what I said about her conduct. She knows the contents I have blogged about her because I informed her also, & has nothing to say for herself. The only response has been the TEFL.com, no doubt through her auspices, have stopped sending the weekly TEFL.com to my account, since I copied, pasted, & sent her the blog. (End of reply)

Therefore, not only are you putting yourself at risk but that of anyone who publishes said accusations without sufficient evidence to support them.

Reply: And I thank you for your legalese advice, Davina. (End of reply)

Finally, take this additional free advice.

Reply: A little bit of schoolyard, jostling for one-upmanship, in this above line. Then follows the sting. It's all so juvenile & predictable. (End of reply)

If you are genuinely looking for a job, you are going the wrong way about impressing potential employers. Such irresponsible behaviour does nothing to ingratiate you either as a person or a teacher and gives us committed, professional TESLers and our profession a very bad name!

Reply: There's nothing wrong, & everything right, about publicly blowing the whistle on people who behave so disingenuously. I've stood up for what is right, & I won't back down on this issue, because it's fundamentally about basic ethics, & the way we choose to treat each other. You have yet to see this, & also, I think you might have some misplaced, hidden political agenda, though I stand to be corrected on this point

Playing games with people through negligent staff behaviour & then ignoring it, hoping it will go away, as if it officially never happened is apparently what you choose to support. I do not support it, I oppose it, & am warning others of what they may experience when dealing with these staff in these companies. Employers should be thankful there are people such as myself who make a stand on this issue. Apparently, Mr. Dhawan was, as he said that lying was "..a serious issue & deserves disciplinary action.", after I had informed him of the fact that Roshni had lied to him.

Davina, despite the fact you seem to have a certain degree of legal training & expertise, your lack of attention to detail in texts, of which there were two cases in your posting- one being absolutely critical, coupled with your uncalled for sneering cynicism as evinced in the final paragraph, portray you very poorly indeed, & I�m not in the slightest surprised you are not working within the legal business. You wouldn�t last 5 minutes with the above quality of performance. Before arguing a case, make sure you have your facts right, & drop any emotiveness, or you�ll just publicly embarrass yourself again.

Furthermore, your cynicism prevents you from recognising genuine intent from genuine people. My intention is to name & shame the culprits, & warn other job seekers, which I chose to be at the time, about the abusive tactics used by the people pointed out above. There is absolutely no intent of �ingratiating� myself with others, as you choose to see. Come out of your cynicism Davina, & see the truth.

Finally, when arguing a case, you should not use emotive exclamation marks, nor a full stop after the �Finally, take another piece of advice..�, but rather, you should use a colon ( : ) to denote �As follows�. You should know this, with your legal training & TEFL teaching. (End of reply)
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Roger2007



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 4 Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 8:16 am Post subject: The Spectrum & Microsoft issue



I've just amended the offending word which Davina pointed out regarding Spectrum. Many thanks to her legalese trained mind.
Roger2007

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Henry_Cowell



Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 2813 Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 1:55 pm Post subject:



Have you learned anything else?


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Roger2007



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 4 Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 11:55 am Post subject: Spectrum etc.



As a matter of fact Henry, yes I have: not to naively trust complete strangers immaterial of the glossy marketing strategies. Actually, I'll be giving a more thorough reply to this issue in a few days' time, when I've put down in an area for a few days, as there are some important points need addressing.

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Roger2007



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 4 Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:33 am Post subject: Aplogies



Okay, I know it's been a while. I've been up in the hills, where lines are slow & prone to crashing etc. I arrived here in Varanasi the day before yesterday, & was writing out a response when the computer completely crashed & I lost everything. Last night I discovered the course I came to attend is now on this aft., so the replies to the critics will have to be deferred, but whatever happens, it will be done after 9-10 days. Promise. Now, don't hold your collective breaths.

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jpvanderwerf2001



Joined: 02 Oct 2003
Posts: 381
Location: Vladivostok, Russia Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:36 am Post subject:



I understood very little of your last post. Could you re-word, Roger?
What I did understand is that you're in India and taking some sort of course?

Reply: Dear JP, sorry for being to colloquial with my language. Yes, I�ve been in India since mid-November, & yes, I have recently completed a course here. Wish you were all here. (End of reply)
_________________
"My doctor told me I was fat. I told him I wanted a second opinion. He said, 'Okay. You're ugly too.'"
-Henny Youngman

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Henry_Cowell



Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 2813 Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 2:11 am Post subject:



Maybe it's an on-the-ground course on intercultural communication for Westerners intending to live/work in India? You know -- sort of an "orientation" to the subcontinent, culture, etiquette, etc.

Reply: Henry, making light of others� misfortunes while you sink back into your comfy chair merely portrays you as smug & unconcerned. Keep to the point, please. (End of reply)
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[Henry_Cowell]

[jpvanderwerf2001]

Wow.

[Stephen Jones]

What I really like is the bit where he replies to Mark Twain!

It's not really about India at all, Henry. It's quite common to be promised a telephone interview, or even a job, and then to hear nothing back.

The basic case here appears to be a lack of co-ordination between the recruiter and the client. Happens all the time.

One of the best candidates I ever interviewed was sent a contract and everything, but then HR used a visa spot they had for him for somebody who was coming immediately instead of in September, and then forgot to reactivate him. By the time I found out about it he'd obviously got another job.

Incidentally talking about cultural differences between India and the West (or in this particular case Sri Lanka and the West) is that westerners tend to be, rightly, obsessed with process, factual detail, whilst the Indian mentality tends to look more at the result. In computer programming this is often a disastrous mismatch of expectations, but it can effect everyday stuff.

I was assured numerous times that the tar sheet and aluminum sheeting had been put on the kitchen ceiling and then when I climb up a ladder to look it's not. My mate had bought and paid for it and given it to the carpenter, the carpenter had just not come round to install it, but as far as my mate was concerned the end result was the same, I was going to have the stuff there sooner or later.

[Henry_Cowell]

Stephen, you're absolutely correct. Such occurrences happen all over the world.

So far, it's happened to Roger2007 exactly once -- yet he's begun writing a dramatic script about it!! Perhaps he's gathering material for a new TV reality programme?

[Roger2007]

Yes Henry, I comletely agree about having over-written on a point so obvious that certain critics refused to see it, hence the lengthy reply. Your opinion about the issue being trivial, with its general ramifications is something we'll have to agree to disagree on. 'Dismissive' was the word I was groping for yet couldn't get out at the time. I don't need your concern, thank you.

[norbdemn]

I had a phone interview with Spectrum-Microsoft. Unfortunately I did not get considered, but felt Roshni was pleasant and responded to my emails in a timely manner.

[Roger2007]

On applying for a visa at the contact office of the organisation I work for, I was told by a colleague there, that he'd "heard bad things about India", after I'd told him about what I'd been doing the past year & mentioned the negative experience with Spectrum International. Recently, when chatting with another colleague here, I found that he was also conned & let down by Spectrum International. He said that Spectrum were advertising jobs to work in Microsoft, at salaries comparable to those in the applicants' own countries, or words to that effect. My colleague believed this (he has commitments back at home) & applied, then was interviewed by phone over a 3-4 month period, possibly by this Roshni woman or someone else, as he couldn't recollect the name clearly. Each time he asked about the salary, he was informed that it would be clarified later on in the interview process. Finally, when he was offered the job, then & only then was he told the actual salary amount, which was the equivalent of 500 pounds Sterling, & fell way short of my colleague's salary at that time. They then upped the offer by over a hundred pounds, yet it was all bonus / performance related, & not definite. On being informed of the real salary, he declined the offer, saying he felt so angry that they had wasted so much of his time, when they could have played straight & just layed their cards on the table. Another victim of Spectrum International & their tricks.

[jpvanderwerf2001]

[travelingirl68]

Wow Roger, you really can't let your experience with Spectrum go, can you? I have not looked for any of the job postings for the positions here in a long time, but I do know that the last time I looked, they did not mention salary - only that it would be commensurate with experience. And if the 'salary relative to your home country' situation is true, I would guess it would relate to people in the same industry - TEFL/TESOL teaching, not every salary for every job in every country.

While 500 pounds may not sound like a lot to people, please keep in mind that that is after taxes, medical insurance, flights to and fro, your apartment and furniture/appliance rental each month, and includes free transportation to and from work, meals on-site, a gym, etc. That figure would have been the take-home, in-hand money.

Depending upon your drinking habits, it is quite easy to spend about $350-400 a month (sorry, I work from a dollar perspective) and live a very nice lifestyle, travel, etc. and save the rest. I don't know about most people, but to save anywhere from $600-1,000 a month was very difficult in the West for me considering the cost of owning/maintaining a car, housing, etc.

While it is unfortuntate that a range was not provided to your colleague/friend, it is pretty standard practice in the US not to discuss salary until the job is offered, not sure why it would be any different here... And while the time-frame for interviewing can seem long and tedious, I would rather that more time be taken than the 'scam' recruiter types that will hire you in other countries without having even spoken to you.

[Henry_Cowell]

[medusa]

Well, this does make for pretty fun reading. Having spent various lengths of time travelling and working in India, in a range of pro. domains, I must say that when it comes down to it: it's a love it and/or hate it country.
I love India and all of the stress and frustration that come with it. I also hate the stress and the frustration. It depends on the day.

I was lucky: I had a French work contract but I was based working with clients in India, so I managed to escape the kind of problems some people have but it doesn't mean I didn't see what Roger would probably consider as a gross misconduct by sombody or something similar. In fact I saw it often and had more than my fair share of problems with the host company. I believe in my situation however to have been totally justified (as i'm sure we all do). But I was representing the paying client and insisted on western standards since we were paying for western standards and providing a service to westerners.

I wouldn't have liked to have been on the other end... Meaning quite simply, lots of people get pooed on. It happens. Even more so in countries like India, so as unfair as it may seem, sometimes you have to accept it and just shrug and say "TII".

[slaqdog]

My experience with this job advert:-
I applied, roshni replied; and seemed very helpful. I spoke to the company on the phone-again very polite and professional-and an interview was arranged. I got up that morning nice and early(before 8am luckily) to prepare and the company phoned an hour before the interview time to check that I was ready. I was,indeed, ready and quite eager. They said they would phone back at the arranged time. I waited. They didn't phone back. I was a little puzzled but thought 'anything could have happened-the entire sub-continent could have disappeared slipping beneath a large plate'(its the way I think).
I sent a mail to roshni who replied, apologised and offered another interview time/day. I shrugged, turned down the opportunity and moved on.
The moral of the story-roger's story-is never rely on one offer/possibility, no matter how promising it may appear. Always go for a number of jobs. S*** happens but it also doesn't happen. My sympathy Roger; similar situations have happened to me in the past.
Point is; you never finished the interview process; why should tefl.com care? No fraud here.or there.
Hug
Slaquie
ps india did not disappear under a giant plate did it?
worried from tunbridge wells

[travelingirl68]

Thanks for your concern - we are still alive and kicking here on the sub-continent!