Job Discussion Forums

[beck's]

I am leaving for Guangzi Province in a couple of weeks. I have an F visa. This is how the public university wanted it and I went along. They sent me a letter of invitation with which I applied for and got the F Visa. They assure me that they will do all the necessary paper work in China to make things legal and above board. I believe them having taught there before albeit on a Z. A current teacher tells me that he entered China on an F and everything went tickety-boo. That is the way they do things now in this particular place. I will report back though if any untoward developments arise.

[william wallace]

Folks...it's sad to say,but connections are everything in China.Come here and make connections.This IS a public forum,so you should understand that I cant say tooooo much. I get air tickets for 300 USD per anywhere in N.A.(Eg: so, I decide on 4 days in Hawaii,2 in SF,and on to my destination in Canada);Visa ? Which one do I want, for how much , how many exit-entry's do I want etc..)
A bit harder for me- how much per hour do you want ? 140? 180? 220 ?
So ,the average schmuck is paying 3,000 in rent; where can I get it for 2,000 RMB ? These are the connections.Most Chinese you WANT to meet have them,so sweet talk them,and you'll get them.....

[SnoopBot]

[foreignDevil]

[WYSIWYG]

I got an interesting email from a friend today.....


> Please be informed the following:
>
> The Entry and Exit Administration Bureau of the Ministry of Public
> Security has tightened its regulations pertaining to the issuance,
> renewal and alteration of visas. The changes took effect July
> 2007. For the foreseeable future, it will no longer be possible to
> change tourist (L) and exchange (F) -type visas to other types.
> Many applications that formerly could be handled by a
> representative now must be completed in person by the applicant.
> Additionally, express visa service is no longer available.
> Enforcement has tightened of entry and exit violations, with recent
> reports of police, school administrators and hotel staff checking
> to ensure that foreigners have not overstayed their visas.
>
> Please be advised that current regulations state that the penalty
> for overstaying a visa is 500 RMB per day of overstay, not to
> exceed 5000 RMB and/or detention. The period of detention can
> range from 5-30 days depending on the severity of the violation.
> Detention may be longer than 30 days in the case that the
> authorities believe that the foreigner was involved in criminal
> activity. The Embassy is aware of several recent detentions of
> American citizens relating to visa overstays and violating the
> terms of their visas (i.e. working while on a visitor's visa).
>
> For more information, please consult with you local Public Security
> Bureau's Entry and Exit office or logon to Beijing Municipal Public
> Security Bureau's English language website at www.bjgaj.gov.cn.
>
> U.S. citizens residing or traveling in China are reminded to
> register with the U.S. Embassy or closest U.S. Consulate by
> entering your travel itinerary and contact information at https://
> travelregistration.state.gov/ibrs/home.asp. In case of difficulties
> registering online, please contact the closest U.S, Embassy or
> Consulate.
>
> U.S. Embassy Beijing: No. 2 Xiu Shui Dong Jie, Chaoyang
> District. tel: 86-10-6532-3431 Email: [email protected].
> Embassy's website: beijing.usembassy-china.org.cn.

[HunanForeignGuy]

The above-message about visa conversion was the United States Embassy's Weekly Circular to all of its citizen in the PRC. Nothing more, nothing less. As always, China should be viewed case-by-case, the way things happen here.

...The ebb-and-flow of the tide...


HFG

[WYSIWYG]

[Orrin]

I just got this in email yesterday. I'm not sure that it clears up any of the questions, but it is apparently serious enough for the consulate to send it out to all who are registered with them.

U.S. CONSULATE GENERAL

GUANGZHOU


American Citizen Services



Date: August 6, 2007

Warden Message: Chinese Visa Policy Tightens



The Entry and Exit Administration Bureau of the Ministry of Public Security has tightened its regulations pertaining to the issuance, renewal and alteration of visas. The changes took effect July 2007. For the foreseeable future, it will no longer be possible to change tourist (L) and exchange (F) -type visas to other types. Many applications that formerly could be handled by a representative now must be completed in person by the applicant. Additionally, express visa service is no longer available. Enforcement has tightened of entry and exit violations, with recent reports of police, school administrators and hotel staff checking to ensure that foreigners have not overstayed their visas.


Please be advised that current regulations state that the penalty for overstaying a visa is 500 RMB per day of overstay, not to exceed 5000 RMB and/or detention. The period of detention can range from 5-30 days depending on the severity of the violation. Detention may be longer than 30 days in the case that the authorities believe that the foreigner was involved in criminal activity. The Embassy is aware of several recent detentions of American citizens relating to visa overstays and violating the terms of their visas (i.e. working while on a visitor�s visa).

For more information, please consult with you local Public Security Bureau�s Entry and Exit office or logon to Beijing Municipal Public Security Bureau�s English language website at www.bjgaj.gov.cn.

U.S. citizens residing or traveling in China are reminded to register with the U.S. Embassy or closest U.S. Consulate by entering your travel itinerary and contact information at https://travelregistration.state.gov/ibrs/home.asp. In case of difficulties registering online, please contact the closest U.S, Embassy or Consulate.

U.S. Embassy Beijing: No. 2 Xiu Shui Dong Jie, Chaoyang District. tel: 86-10-6532-3431 Email: [email protected]. Embassy�s website: beijing.usembassy-china.org.cn.

U.S. Consulate General Chengdu: Number 4, Lingshiguan Road, Section 4, Renmin Nanlu, Chengdu 610041, tel. 86-28-8558-3992 Email: [email protected].

U.S. Consulate General Guangzhou: The Consular Section is located at 5th Floor, Tianyu Garden (II phase), 136-146 Lin He Zhong Lu, Tianhe District, tel. (86-20) 8518-7605; Email: [email protected].

U.S. Consulate General Shanghai: The Consular Section is located in the Westgate Mall, 8th Floor, 1038 Nanjing Xi Lu, Shanghai 200031; tel. (86-21) 3217-4650, Email: [email protected].


U.S. Consulate General Shenyang: No. 52, 14th Wei Road, Heping District, Shenyang 110003; tel. (86-24) 2322-2374, Email [email protected]


American Citizen Services

U.S. Consulate General Guangzhou

Tel: (86-20) 8518-7605

(86-20) 8121-6077 (after hours duty officer for emergencies only)

Fax: (86-20) 3884-4410

Email: [email protected]

[SnoopBot]

For what I've heard this will be strictly enforced around Beijing.

They are trying to insure that the protestors and human rights groups cannot show up to protest the Olympics.

[arioch36]

I first came in 2007. Never heard these things stressed so strongly. Wouldn't they love to have a couple of Americans to make examples of. Reminds me a month ago when then turned back 6 containers of Avian water due to water quality

Definitely not the right time to allow your self to be "farmed out"

[WYSIWYG]

A while back these fellers found themselves in an "example" situation.



Randolph Hobson Guthrie III, Cody Abram Thrush and two Chinese accomplices were charged with selling pirated DVDs for $3 per disc over eBay's auction Web site and another site, called Three Dollar DVD, according to the official China Daily newspaper.

Police had estimated the group had sold 180,000 DVDs worth roughly 7 million renminbi ($845,000) between November 2003 and July 2004, the report said. However, the judge who presided over the case at the Shanghai No. 2 Intermediate People's Court said evidence presented by police showed the group had sold 133,000 pirated DVDs worth around 3.3 million renminbi to customers in more than 20 countries, including the U.S., the U.K., Canada and Australia, it said.

Based on the evidence presented, the group's profit from these sales was found to be almost 1 million renminbi, it said.

DVD piracy is rampant in China, and pirated discs can be found for sale in shops and on the street in many Chinese cities, including Shanghai and Beijing. The Chinese government has announced efforts to crack down on pirated DVD sales but these efforts so far appear to have had little impact.
Guthrie - who was described in the report as the "prime culprit" - was sentenced to 30 months in jail and fined 500,000 renminbi while Thrush and the two Chinese accomplices, Wu Dong and Wu Shibiao, were given sentences up to 10 months and fined between 10,000 renminbi and 30,000 renminbi, China Daily reported. Guthrie and Thrush will be deported from China when their sentences have been completed, it said.

According to the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DOHS), which jointly investigated the case, codenamed Operation Spring, with Chinese law enforcement officials, Guthrie and five other individuals were arrested in Shanghai on July 1, 2004. The arrests were made by officers from China's Ministry of Public Security and the Shanghai Public Security Bureau.

At the same time, Chinese police also seized 210,000 pirated DVDs and $67,000 and 222,000 renminbi in cash, DOHS said.
Guthrie appears to not have tried very hard to hide his activities. A check of whois records for the domain name threedollardvd.com lists an address in Shanghai, a Shanghai telephone number, and a Yahoo e-mail address with the user name "randyguthrie."

The DOHS investigation was launched in Sept. 2003 by the department's Immigration and Customs Enforcement offices in Gulfport, Mississippi, and Houston, the department said. American officials approached their Chinese counterparts in April 2004 to assist with the investigation, it said.

DOHS also credited the Motion Picture Association of America, an industry group, with providing "crucial assistance and information" to law enforcement officials in the U.S. and China. MPAA estimated U.S. film companies lose over $3.5 billion in potential worldwide sales due to piracy, DOHS said.

[arioch36]

Oh, but it can't happen to me!

I have a good friend. He's going back with what, a thousand DVD's in his suitcase, the profits of which are going to his new car fund. Some of the DVD's he has ten or so copies of. Most likely, he will have no problems, and make a tidy profit.

Most likely

[thirdrockphoto]

There are lots of anecdotes about visas and other requirements ("I know a guy who..." "One teacher I heard of...") but then there is the law and that is how you will probably be treated. Stories about what happened prior to January, 2006 are not useful for judging what will happen now as the law changed in 2005 restricting visa conversions. What happens in Hong Kong is another kettle of fish since they have administration that is separate from that of mainland.

You can hope to get special treatment based on "guangxi" but I doubt it will happen. It isn't like getting a permit to put extra tables on the sidewalk in front of a restaurant. The PSB makes the decisions about visas and they are about as chummy and bribe hungry as the U.S. visa folks which means not at all.

You really have two expectations for visa: what the law provides (Z for getting a Foreign Experts Certificate) or what you think can happen based on a one-in-a-thousand exception you heard about from someone online that you don't even know.

The requirement for two years experience is not so strict but it will be implemented from the big municipalities out to the hinterlands in a matter of a year so expect it to be fairly firm.

There is still another certification called "Foreign English Teacher" and that can be had without experience or a degree but it is only available in rural areas. You would probably have to contact the Foreign Affairs Office for each province one by one to find out what positions are available since most entities in rural areas don't have the money or English skills to advertise on a foreign website.

[thirdrockphoto]

Regarding U.S. Consulate on Guangzhou: They should be getting accurate info and whomever is sending out their emails should be sending accurate info but it is still second-hand. If they say the visa conversion law was implemented in 2007 by the PSB, it must be a followup to the one implemented in 2005. I made detailed notes during a PowerPoint presentation by the Public Security Bureau in 2006 by a group of six PSB staff who came to my university to give a 2 and a half hour presentation that covered this point thoroughly. They mentioned 2005 specifically as the date of change for the law.

[valismp]

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone for various input. It's been very interesting reading everyone's posts. After seeing the, ah, diversity of replies here (ranging from "it's illegal, do it at your own risk" to "it's legal, go for it"), I wound up getting in touch with some other ESL teachers living in Beijing, through my friend (also an ESL teacher) who lives in Beijing.

The general consensus among these teachers (which is more relevant to me, since they are in Beijing, and many of the posters in this thread are in other cities which apparently have other laws) was that Z visas are harder to come by because of the olympics. The government is trying to increase security, and this is one way that they're doing it. As long as you don't jump around and yell "look at me, my situation is questionable!!!", you should be fine.

They also told me that getting an F visa transferred to some other type (Z or X) is becoming more difficult to do without leaving the country.

So, there you go: some more opinions to add to everyone else's.