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SnoopBot
Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 740
Location: USA
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 Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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WW, I agree with your analysis.
I do see more demand for PhD subject teachers in the future. More Universities will jump on the global joint venture scene and parent up with a western university. To keep accreditation they must be PhD holders.
I do NOT see a large pay raise compared to what they (PhD�s) would earn in the USA.
The market is full of unemployed PhD's, so many of them would welcome a chance to travel and further their career in the international global market for the experience.
I feel they will earn a little higher than what we are earning 8000-15,000 RMB a month. I also feel the dodgy PhD mills will be working at full speed to fill the gaps. This requirement and glut of the PhD's will filter down the chain until we are expected to have a PhD to teach a group of K-3 kids.
As we know the conditions in the West are not good for university graduates, we have thousands of graduates with no job opportunities.
Here in my rust belt located county the only job positions are:
Medical - (soon to be losing the big bucks after Socialism of medical care).
Lawyer-Politics- The big crooks and elite families insure THEIR kids do this. I despise most of them around here.
Some type of Police-prisons, probation, corrections position (Control the poor)
Government- local, state, or federal
Military (doing real well in my area getting their cannon fodder)
The rest are gone, including NO high tech ( my undergrad degree)
Universities are big business and after you graduate with a 4-year degree, they will tell you,"Well now you need a masters,� This keeps going on until you spent too much on your education, certifications and stop, or you reach the PhD level to find the same situation exists.
Thus, the glut starts. It is going to be a sad day when those unemployed PhD's are fighting over those 3000 RMB a month jobs. |
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Jordean
Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 238
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| SnoopBot wrote: |
I cannot see anyone teaching in China with a PhD unless they are under some exchange program (Being paid a Stipend) or retired with a good income and do not care.
Unless of course the PhD is a dodgy one.
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With all due respect you presume too much.
I don't see the substantive difference between teaching in the States as opposed to China. One could make the same argument between, say, Mississippi and California, as in who in their right mind would teach at Ole' Miss as opposed to UCLA, given the disparity in pay and standard of living... Etc.
Some people like grits. Doesn't make them stupid or incompetent or less-qualified. Some people think that their lives can be more than a hunt for the almighty dollar and a life of conformity among like-minded countrymen. Good for them. |
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william wallace
Joined: 14 May 2003
Posts: 2869
Location: in between
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Jordean,
I see it as in the middle of you and Snoop. I think the PhDs are well protected...who grants PhDs ? Exactly! But MA's and the like are vulnerable. THERE ARE TOO MANY PEOPLE,so naturally and logically, there are too many B.A's,B.Sc's et al .What we need is a big fat majority of peasantry !!! Who goes first ? You ? Me ? |
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Anda
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 2199
Location: Jiangsu Province
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| Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:00 am Post subject: Um |
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I don't think it's who goes first but what goes first and that is wages. Back home in Sydney Asians are turning up for interviews and offering to work for half the award rate cash in hand. Our lot are doing much the same thing here to each other.
Parents here want to see their kids taught how they were taught and that doesn't take a brain to teach in such a way.
But as SnoopBot has stated what is on offer back home? The biggest protection we have is the fact that there are so many bad places here along with teachers having to pay their ticket here up front. |
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InTime
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 1676
Location: CHINA-at-large
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| Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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Additional value-added TESOL elements...
Beyond Alphabet Soup...
ARE...
*Whole-brained Pedagogy
*Effectiveness
*Memorability
*TESOL-as-a-Performance Art
Ph.D. training better trains:
* Film Critics
rather than:
*Directors
*Actors
Actually, such an academic process can be negatively related
with inspiring performance in the expressive arts.
Mayumi Mori, a Japanese TESOL teacher-school owner/Artist/Mystic described the role of the FL teacher as being
"A conductor of the QI." |
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SnoopBot
Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 740
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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| william wallace wrote: |
Snoop : My working thesis is: ESL grew due to a demand from countries that had a lot of trade with English speaking countries(Japan post 1945 and the reconstruction). The late 1960s break from traditions included exotic travel, (you can see how UK travelers slowed down on Continental European travels to India etc) and a greater need for post-high school education (specifically Kennedy's 1963 push for better educated youth. Japan, Taiwan and Hong Kong were what China is now, and these were some of the lucrative early ESL markets. The Middle East getting American technical training,so that they could be more independent in dealing with their oil wealth.
In the early 1970s the phenomenon of budget ("find yourself" in Goa,for example) backpackers coincided with this new demand for English,as university attendance was going beyond the upper-classes. The Wheelers(Lonely Planet) were in that early backpacking crew(1970-3);their guidebooks allowed for greater adventure and lower risks.
By the 1980s the aforementioned countries manufacturing required more and more ESL FTs, and to attract Westerners they were offered very lucrative packages.As this was happening manufacturing and other support businesses were starting to leave developed countries,and this continues to the present day.
By the 1990s ESL was a large scattered global business with a few large chains(mostly in Japan).This was the period of time where advertisements for "Travel the world and make 2,000 dollars a month" were becoming frequent in magazines and newspapers,but by then, the hay-day was beginning to wane.Meanwhile, more and more Americans, Canadians, British...were getting degrees in a shrinking job market, though in areas of technicalness and specialization,it was growing.
By the time the internet was in place, there were vast amounts of young people with degrees, and the strong demand for ESL teachers was easily met by the internet, and with the surplus of applicants with degrees salaries began to stagnate or fall.
Today, we still have stagnant or falling salaries,but the amount of those coming into ESL is still growing. Manufacturing has all been but replaced in first world countries.
This is a very simplified version of my working thesis,but my conclusion is that the viability of ESL is coming to a close. |
It sounds like your spot on with your premise. I've come to that conclusion too. I feel areas in Africa will be the next ASIA EFL growth market but the salaries will be very low (if anything) with volunteers and religious types doing most the teaching.
Our western countries are fastly becoming third world. Gone are the days of our parents and grandparents which had the idea of:
1. Hard work, honesty, integrity = American/UK/AUS/NZ/CA/SA dream
This soon changed to education = getting the dream
Now it is "who you know, family wealth and connection, political status" = finding that dream.
The average college graduate is dime a dozen, with many looking at adventure or employment to fill the ESL ranks.
I see the face issue coming into play in the future. For a whopping 5000 rmb a month salary + a PhD you can teach some rich kids at a private kindergarten.
School A has a Foreign Doctor, so school B (keeping competitive) wants to have their own performing doctor. The rest of us fighting for crumbs left over.
The best idea these days is 4 year Political Science Frat party degree, 3 year Law school, a few years of being a crook lawyer. Then moving on to be a bigger crook in the political scene/ government.
Those will be the only job positions left to insure middle-class life or above. |
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SnoopBot
Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 740
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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| InTime wrote: |
Additional value-added TESOL elements...
Beyond Alphabet Soup...
*TESOL-as-a-Performance Art
Actually, such an academic process can be negatively related
with inspiring performance in the expressive arts.
Mayumi Mori, a Japanese TESOL teacher-school owner/Artist/Mystic described the role of the FL teacher as being
"A conductor of the QI." |
Dancing monkey performance practicum 600
I can see this being a requirement for a TESOL related degree in the future.
hahah |
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