Job Discussion Forums

[william wallace]

I suspect if trends continue, it'll go to about 3500-3000 RMB a month. But what about hours per week ? If an educated Westerner will work for around 450-500 CDN dollars a month, hours of work are kinda moot. When I was a Social Worker in a poor province in Canada a single person(1990)on WELFARE would be issued a check for $560 CDN, and that was almost 20 years ago, a single mother would get $840. Those people didn't have much then.

Here we have people escaping poverty in Africa, Russia,Philippines etc by teaching ESL, as well as (shrinking numbers) retirees who needn't any money,as well as the (growing) young folks wanting a Mandarin environment to later have the REAL career.

I posted "someone other than yourself" in the poll to exclude ego issues.As an example, some posters have written ill of the other FTs and the state of ESL,while omitting themselves from such claims.

[tw]

I think it really depends on how many hourss a week the FT's are willing to work, and the hourly rate they are willing to settle for. When we talk about 3000-3500 RMB a month, how many lessons are we also talking about? Notice that I say lessons, not "hours" since many FT's like to get picky and claim that an hour should be 60 minutes and not per class "hour". Someone making 3500 RMB teaching 14 classroom hours a week in a college or university is making better money (as far as hour rates go) than someone making 6000 RMB teaching 30 classoom hours a week teaching at a language mill.

[saint57]

I met a guy in Tianjin who paid for his position. It was some volunteer abroad scam I guess.

This doesn't close the poll because he was from Denmark.

[Anda]

The college where I work have been trying to get two English volunteers for next year. The place they have been dealing with is a British set up that alrady sends hundreds here but the numbers go up and down from year to year.

There are others from the States who volunteer in exchange for lets say free college / Uni course from the States.

..........................................................................................................

http://www.volunteering.com.au/become_a_volunteer/meet_our_volunteers/will_kitching.asp

My son Will is a GAP Volunteer Teacher in China
By Carol Kitching

For the past six months, my teenaged son Will, a volunteer English teacher, has been living in paradise � maybe not the desert island variety but in China's rural city of Guilin. I say 'paradise' because that's how some teenagers from Beijing University described Guilin � physically beautiful, surrounded by limestone karst hills and rivers and green fields of rice. It is said: "I will marry in Beijing but I will spend my life in Paradise."

During my recent visit, I could see that the description is accurate. Guilin is a paradise and Will is very lucky to be there for six months as a 2006 GAP volunteer teacher � one of 700 students from Australia undertaking a six-month Schools (Teaching) placement throughout the world. Before embarking on his personal adventure (ahead of a 2007 university course), he attended a week-long intensive Mandarin language program in Sydney and a GAP teaching skills course in Melbourne in February 2006.

......................................................................................................

Volunteer in China
Teach English to Children and Teachers

http://www.globalvolunteers.org/1main/china/volunteer_in_china.htm

Volunteer to teach English and assist with community development projects in China! Enjoy this country's rich history of ancient civilizations and exciting traditions, as well as contemporary treasures - friendly people, fascinating culture, beautiful scenery and unique cuisine.

Global Volunteers was the first American NGO of its kind invited to send volunteers to the People's Republic of China in 1995. Early in 1996, we coordinated our first team. Today, you can make history in Chinese classrooms, courthouses, hospitals and homes!
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

There's plenty more!

[tw]

The fact is, I actually don't mind seeing foreign volunteers teaching English in China -- as long as they teach in impoverished places and not some language mill or college where they are taking away other people's jobs, and giving their "host" free labour, and as long as nobody makes any profit off their service. What I like are legitimate volunteering organizations that send volunteers here without any hidden agenda, i.e. missionary work. God only knows how much some of those village kids would love to have someone teaching them some English. Yes, flame me, but how many of you are willing to live in a farming village where children wake up at 4am to walk an hour to school, where children write with a broken little pencil because pens are unheard of, where the blackboard has been written on and wiped for over fifty years, where children walk around without any shoes on, where children are malnourished, where children have to quit school to help out on the farm? Sounds like BS? Well then, I guess some of you have not met my wife, or have watched that role-switching Chinese reality show.

I think sending some sixteen, seventeen, or eighteeen year old here would definitely be the greatest experience of their life. Imagine in two short months, their life will change forever from their experience. And I wouldn't doubt if any of them will find that the most rewarding experience. Of course, dreaming about this is one thing. In reality, Chinese red tape alone will probably make this extremely difficult. The last thing the CCP wants foreigners to see is people still living in caves (Shanxi), or only taking three showers their entire life because water is so precious. Also, it'd be financially impossible to run an organization and not have any revenue. Then again, once people hear the word "fee", they automatically think of the word "scam".

Oh well, it was a nice thought though.

[Anda]

Ah TW the folowing is a movie on what you are talking about!


A trailer of the movie on youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3MFDfQh4i4

The story of the main actor

http://www.china.org.cn/english/features/cw/214270.htm

The Movie "Not one Less"


http://www.amazon.com/Not-One-Less-Minzhi-Wei/dp/0767853512


Genres: Drama
Tagline: In her village, she was the teacher... In the city, she discovered how much she had to learn.
Plot Synopsis: In a remote mountain village, the teacher must leave for a month, and the mayor can find only a 13-year old girl, Wei Minzhi, to substitute. The teacher leaves one stick of chalk for each day and promises her an extra 10 yuan if there's not one less student when he returns. Within days, poverty forces the class troublemaker, Zhang Huike, to leave for the city to work. Minzhi, possessed of a stubborn streak, determines to bring him back. She enlists the 26 remaining pupils in earning money for her trip. She hitches to Jiangjiakou City and begins her search. The boy, meanwhile, is there, lost and begging for food. Minzhi's stubbornness may be Huike and the village school's salvation.

[william wallace]

TW: I couldn't have wrote it bettter myselft

[Sonnet]

*Sigh* kill me if you wish, but... some low-paying jobs are just that, low-paying scams. Some are OK; choose a random language mill, factor in all of the expenses that said mill covers for a teacher, and the place is actually paying double the salary you see advertised. Would you rather earn 2k extra per month & find your own place, or have your school sort everything out?

But, well, I'm clearly biased, and there's nothing good about having your airfare, insurance, visa, housing, teaching materials & holidays paid for. All for-profit education companies are evil, and slave wages will proliferate. I'm sorry.

[For what it's worth, I've met some decent volunteers, and some absolute mugs. I've met people who'll take 3k, without benefits, just because Daddy has convinced them it'll look good on a CV. I reckon 2k is the bottom of the barrel. Although... y'know, if you didn't drink, and didn't live some Westernised life, even that is more than enough to live on. Christ, it's more than my Chinese friends, who work in local middle schools & have years of experience, make. But, hey, we're white & hence special, so we deserve silly money].

[william wallace]

Dear Sonnet,
Being in Beijing, I'm seeing some of the better positions offer a fraction of a reasonable wage (based on cost of living, inflation, being a " Foreign Expert") and rather than demand go down, it's at an all time high.

[Katja84]

I was one of the 'free' teachers at Ningxia University. We worked for 800 a month, but this was paid for by our organization rather than the uni. What they had to do for this free labour was help us get through the red tape and find us work with disabled people. They also had to send a few voluntary teachers to Norway. A reasonable exchange, I think.

As a Chinese teachers' salary is quite possible to live on I would use that as the minimum amount, but if I was better qualified than them my expectations would rise as well. Before doing my degree/my teaching qualification I would therefore have been fine with the 1200 yuan offered to entry level Chinese teachers at my uni.

[eslstudies]

[laodeng]

Anda mentions the Global Volunteers organization. From personal experience, I can say this is one of the biggest scams in China. I'm tired of public p*ssing matches, so if you'd like to debate this, send me a PM.

[SnoopBot]

BEIJING, Aug. 19, 2007
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(AP) Grocery shopping has become a painful experience for Zhang Xueyi. Meat prices have risen 50 percent in the past year, and eggs and other products are not far behind, forcing the 31-year-old railway technician's family to spend a third of its $400 monthly income on food.

"If prices go up more, we have to pay. We'll cut back somewhere else," said Zhang as he hefted bags of eggs, vegetables and rice from the market down a narrow Beijing lane.

After a run that has seen sizzling growth top 10 percent for four years, analysts say China's supercharged economy is facing strains that could break out into an upsurge of inflation.

So far the worst damage has been confined to food prices, which jumped 15.4 percent in July over the same month a year ago and drove overall inflation to a decade-high 5.6 percent. But wages are rising too, as are the costs of oil and electric power. Record-setting exports and a stock market boom are sending cash flooding through the economy, stoking demand for goods.


That is part of an article today I was reading, I do not see FT's (at least worthwhile ones) accepting less than 3000 RMB a month. I am retired so really do not need my teaching salary, with that said, I will also not allow myself to be cheated or make some Chinese outfit rich from my labor.

I feel other retired people would feel the same and not accept low wages based on principle. However, I do see those that have no degree or marketable ability possible accepting >3000 RMB a month to get a constant supply of 16 oz YangJing's for 3 RMB a bottle.

Of course these are not the people you want to be teaching. Even backpackers and drunks have a low enough cut off point where they couldn't afford Beer or food and would sooner or later refuse to accept these low salary positions.


This means the prices are being driven down by those who want the "Chinese Experience" thinking that if they can say "Ni Hao" they will gain valuable marketable skills after they completed their MBA or Law School that Dad wants them to go to.

You also have the Olympics crowd that want to be part of the party.

Inflation is a serious problem , coupled with dropping or at best stagnant wages, I feel the ESL party is over for China.

I am not sure if it will improve after the Olympics are over, it might get worse as every warm body with a pulse decides they want to come to China. We all know teaching is the easiest way to do this.

We all say, a 4 year degree holder would not accept such low undignified wages and they cannot fall too much lower. Yes they can, we all think of the expense of our education to decide on a fair salary to accept.

However, remember 50% + have a bogus degree or embellished CV. They do not have any cost of an education to think of while accepting these low salaries.

Remember, the Chinese never check credentials even if some bum shows up with a Harvard PhD aged 20.

Therefore, I feel the lowest salary that would be accepted is based on the BF factor. The BF factor will be the baseline salary level that the lowest-fraud FT will accept.

BF= cost of Beer and Food.
I feel the BF factor is 2500-3000 RMB a month . Maybe even lower in the remote areas as Beer and Food is cheaper.

[Brian Caulfield]

A friend was here on one of these scams for the last 4 months . She is a medical doctor back home and came here with the US cultural exchange . She was teaching over 4000 students a week and e-mailed me everyday for ideas . She ran a teacher centered classroom where she mainly sang songs to the students . She finally told me the students were rich and lived in the Beijing area . Some people made a lot of money on her white face . The fact is that she did a bad job . A lovy dovy English teacher who only taught her pets . So the Chinese got ripped off just as much as the teachers who were not qualified .
I am not threatened by this fad . Sooner or later they will need to get good teachers here if they are to pass their tests and bring the levels of English up for all the students.

[nickpellatt]

My salary is at the low end being 3300 per month.

I work 14 x 45 minute lessons next term...but I would never count this as 14 hours...simply as it isnt! I spend UP TO 12 hours in class per week....and have no other duties at all

I live in a 4 bed house on campus, a house I share with one other teacher...this is supplied free, and I get 3.5 months paid holiday a year with the air ticket home at contract end.

Cost of living is fairly low in Hainan...next term I anticipate saving 1300 a month....500 yuan a week is still enough to eat our every day, go clubbing once a week, and join the gymnasium at the 5* local hotel