Job Discussion Forums

[KevinT123]

I have been reading various postings about this particular establishment initiated by The Messenger who used to be one of my colleagues at Suihua University. Let me state my particular experience and you can judge yourself the integrity and honesty of the leaders.

Some 20 months ago, a foreign teacher arrived at this university from the USA with his two sons. At the time, I was also working as a foreign English teacher there. The college employed this American teacher knowing full well that he only had a tourist visa that was about to expire. However, he proved a good teacher who was liked by his students.

The university decided to issue him with the paperwork to get a 'z' visa but this, of course, meant that he had to leave the China Mainland, get the visa and then return. It was decided he should go to Hong Kong with his two sons and the university made explicit promises on several occasions that his expenses would be reimbursed when he returned.

At the time, he had insufficient money. The university bought him one way hard sleeper tickets to Guangzhou and I loaned him 4000 RMB out of my own pocket because he was a good teacher that I thought would be an asset to the university and I didn't want to see him leave.

He was instructed by the university to go to Shenzhen after getting the visa where the brother of the FAO Liaison Officer would give him the rail tickets to return. Rather stupidly, as it turned out, I also gave the FAO Liaison Officer the name and telephone number of a good friend of mine who has a business based in Hong Kong. I expected that, if the liaison officer called her, she could help the American teacher with things like hotels and help him with his stay in Hong Kong (to help him find accommodation, not pay for it!).

What was to follow has left me shocked even by Chinese standards.The man that dealt with financial matters in the Foreign Language Department at that time found out that the liaison officer had my friend's contact details. He instructed the liaison officer to call her and make a deal in which she would pay for the hotel and buy the return tickets for the American teacher and the money would be given back to her when the teacher arrived back in Suihua. Using her power and influence, she negotiated a deal with a Guangdong travel agency for three very cheap air tickets which she paid for with her credit card and she also paid the deposit for that teacher's hotel. The air tickets were actually cheaper than the hard sleeper tickets purchased for the teacher to go to Hong Kong. She did all of this to help the university out and with the full consensus of the leader mentioned above. I knew nothing of it. The deal was done completely behind my back.

The American teacher did nothing wrong. He collected the receipts, returned to Suihua and presented them as asked. But the particular leader who authorised this deal, as is befitting for the man, then refused to pay one penny any of the money. As is so usual at this university, a massive breach of contract and cast iron evidence that this man's word is worth nothing. He is a man without any moral scruples or honour at all! Moreover, he then started to deduct the difference between the cost of the rail tickets and the cost of the air tickets from the American teacher's salary.

This is the kind of behaviour you can expect from the leaders of Suihua University if you go there. If anyone disputes this review either within Suihua University or outside, I will happily give details of the business lady, her legal team, her company and several foreign teachers including that American teacher himself (needless to say all of whom have left this establishment but none of whom can describe their time there as a positive experience). I'm sure that they will all confirm that every word stated in this review is true and accurate.

The American left soon after being so badly cheated and I decided that enough was enough and have been working at an excellent university in Inner Mongolia ever since. I put up with a lot of unprofessional behaviour from that particular leader during my three years at Suihua University but the above mentioned action I simply could not tolerate. Myself, my friend in Hong Kong and the American teacher all finished well out of pocket because of this dishonest and selfish act.

[lostinasia]

With the standard "I mean no offense" comment ... that being said

This sounded doomed from the beginning

-- teaching illegally on a visitor visa
-- school didn't want to pay for trip up-front - but that's usual
-- "promise" of reimbursement
-- borrowing money from another teacher - BIG Mistake
-- the fraud with this third individual

Sorry, but I'd never hand over 4000 of anything to someone that was not my family or best friend and I would certainly would never be some middle man as happened there in Hong Kong.

I am not too sympathetic considering he was working illegally and had no legally binding contract.

Sounds to me like the "teacher" has no grounds for any legal recourse.

The other people involved may have it though.

[KevinT123]

I am not looking for sympathy. I tried, as my friend did, to help the particular university in question. We lost out but that is history. What is important is this particular university is now recruiting for the next semester. This incident describes the way that the leaders carry out their business. It is just one example. In their latest ad they are offering travel bonuses, telephone expenses and other unlikely benefits. If you read other postings on the internet, you will see what other teachers say. I just want to warn other potential applicants that little of what the leaders of this university say can be trusted. Search the internet carefully before taking the dive!

[Lobster]

A sorry tale indeed! I don't think anyone would question the validity of your report or require contact details. Forgive me if I castigate you a bit while we all take away some lessons from this experience:

Don't lend anyone cash on behalf of a company or institution. Let them sort out their issues. Don't volunteer to do anything!

Get any repayment promises in writing; stamped and signed.

Don't provide your friends' names to others. Keep in close contact and constantly monitor developing situations. (Yes, that was a silly thing to do. You should repay your friend in HK due to your own poor judgement.)

Don't come to or stay in China, especially with kids, if you can't even scrape up enough cash for a visa run to HK. If an empoyer wants you to go to HK or elsewhere for a visa, make them prepay all expenses such as transportation and hotel costs if you can leave them some collateral.

Follow your instincts. After 3 years of working with this guy, you knew he was a nogoodnik, yet you still went out on a flimsy limb.

Back home, the prospect of a tarnished reputation stops many outfits from stooping to deceits such as this. Here, the prospect of a few extra yuan outweighs any such risk.

RED

[KevinT123]

I have taken lessons from this, don't worry about that! I hope other people can too. This whole thing took place some time ago. The year that I left Suihua University, there were eight foreign teachers (four Russian and four English). Seven left. One remained, that being The Messenger whose account you can also find in this discussion forum under the title Suihua University. It's fair to say he regretted his decision to stay. On other forums, you can read accounts about this establishment written by the foreign teachers brought in to replace us. It doesn't make good reading. Now this university is getting desperate and offering things like travel bonuses and telephone expenses. They have obviously sifted through benefits offered by other institutions to cajole new teachers to arrive. These things have never been offered or given before at Suihua University. Just a warning for any prospective teacher. This university is good at making promises but pretty damn lousy at keeping them. They will use all kinds of deception and trickery to avoid giving you these benefits when you arrive. They will hold you to ransom with them. Getting the air fare is near on impossible, if you get your salary you are a lucky one (especially for the winter holiday period when the leaders are loathe to pay you although it is clearly written in the contract), travel bonus 2200 RMB you will never see!

[Brian Caulfield]

We are at their mercy here . I too have been burned many times for more than 4,000. But it is not a foreign thing . Chinese stiff each other as much as they do us . Watching the Japanese here I have learned one thing . Get everything in writing (chinese) and don't be afraid to ask the same question a million times to make sure they understand . Slow them down and don't make any arrangements of agreements at a baiju banquet .

[clark.w.griswald]

Clearly the school is wrong if they made promises regarding all of this that they didn�t keep.

You suggest that American guy did nothing wrong, but based upon the story that you posted I do think however that a good deal of the responsibility for the damages done should rest with the American guy. It seems that it may be yet another case of a foreign teacher coming to China without adequate money to cover legitimate expenses.

The guy arrived for work on a tourist visa with two sons in tow. He must have known that it was likely that a visa run to Hong Kong would be likely in the event that he found legal employment so he really should have ensured that he had the funds to cover this without borrowing from other teachers, friends, nor the school.

I do understand your main point that the school promised to cover these costs and then reneged. That is inexcusable. But had the individual teacher been better prepared then this whole situation would not have impacted upon others such as yourself and your friend in Hong Kong.

I am a bit confused about the following:

[KevinT123]

KevinT123 wrote:
The air tickets were actually cheaper than the hard sleeper tickets purchased for the teacher to go to Hong Kong.


KevinT123 wrote:
Moreover, he then started to deduct the difference between the cost of the rail tickets and the cost of the air tickets from the American teacher's salary.

No, as it says, the air tickets were cheaper than the rail tickets. The deception here being that the university still took the difference from the American teacher's salary despite not returning the expenses. They actually profited from the transaction of buying the rail tickets. In other words, we will only cover the cost of the much cheaper air ticket after finding this to be the case.

[clark.w.griswald]

[KevinT123]

The whole point of this is not for me to harp on about the money that my friend or myself lost, I blame myself for that and, in comparison to many other foreign teachers here in China, the fraud committed is relatively small change.

As I iterated earlier, I have quoted this as an example of how the leaders at Suihua University (or Suihua College to be more accurate) do their business. If you feel that taking advantage of other people's generosity is an acceptable way to conduct business, then so be it. I am leaving it open to judgement.

The reason I have posted this review is the university (college) is now trying to recruit new teachers. Simply do your homework, not just about the university but also about the city of Suihua. You will find out some interesting things notably the level of corruption and embezzlement in this town. Even by Chinese standards, this town is noted for dishonest behaviour. Every time you are cheated out of money, the leaders feed you the same rhetoric: "this is a poor college". Look around at the money invested in new buildings and big cars for the leaders, and money wasted on the dining habits of the party cadres at the university! Three leaders of the university are now serving long prison terms for corrupt acts.

I have now moved on to a much better and professionally operated university. The difference is astounding. If you are a foreign teacher considering working at Suihua University, I suggest you ask critical questions like when the alledged "benefits" will be paid and how, when your winter break salary will be paid, photographs of the inside of the so called "apartment" (which is actually a box measuring about 25 square metres divided into a kitchen, bathroom, living room and bedroom. The refrigerator supplied takes half of the kitchen space) and a list of the rules and regulations applied to the use of your living space including who has access, freedom to invite guests etc.

[clark.w.griswald]

I certainly agree with you about doing research and asking questions. Add to that the standard recommendation for getting information from teachers who are or have worked at the school.

[KevinT123]

Certainly! It's great reading the testamonial from "Mr Very Satisfied Foreign Laoshi that has worked here for 5 years" in his best Chinglish and his 163.com e-mail address! seriously though, if you ask for such a thing at Suihua University, be skeptical if the e-mail address includes the username Rubyducky (although he is a Chinese English teacher, his written English is more than acceptable especially if he has time to plan what to say)!