Job Discussion Forums

donfan · Joined: 31 Aug 2003 Posts: 217

I was wondering if there is anywhere I could practice medicine without a degree. Even though I don't have any skills or qualifications I really think I would make a great doctor. Any advice? Rolling Eyes

fat_chris · Joined: 10 Sep 2003 Posts: 3198 Location: Beijing

guest of Japan · Joined: 28 Feb 2003 Posts: 1601 Location: Japan

You could probably do it in China, but I heard the pay isn't very good.

shmooj · Joined: 11 Sep 2003 Posts: 1758 Location: Seoul, ROK

You absolutely need a degree in Japan, but it can be in any subject. THe pay is better than back home so I'd say go for it.

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

Have you decided yet what specialty you want to engage in - surgery, ophtalmology, mergency operations, obstretics, psychiatry, dentistry...?

Gordon · Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 5309 Location: Japan

Give Japan a try, they don't use anaestetic anyways. Make sure you have a white face though, but I think they'll want to see your picture first.

Wolf · Joined: 10 May 2003 Posts: 1245 Location: Middle Earth

In China they expect you to bring your own surgery equipment though. Laughing

Irish · Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 371

Why not try one of those online certificates? It shouldn't set you back more than $200 US and you can easily become a doctor without going to the trouble of seeing any patients during your training.

Capergirl · Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2003 3:03 pm Post subject:

I'm pretty sure you would do well in Taiwan without a medical degree. I have little doubt that the doctor who "looked after" me in the hospital had any real medical knowledge and if he did have a degree, it was probably one of those "degrees" you see advertised on infomercials. Laughing

My doctor here in Canada was aghast when she heard that the Taiwanese doctor wanted to put pins in my leg for a simple fracture of the fibula. Confused

While we're on the topic, I've always thought it would be "neat" to be an airline pilot. Do you think my English lit. degree is enough? Very Happy

Capergirl · Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2003 3:04 pm Post subject:

MELEE · Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2003 6:46 pm Post subject: Re: Any suggestions?

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

My sole ambition in life is to drive a bus. I have watched other people doing it. I've neen a passenger zillions of times.

What is this nonsense aboutt having a license ?

leeroy · Joined: 30 Jan 2003 Posts: 777 Location: London UK

This doctor/teacher analogy may seem very poignant - but doctors have an infinitely more difficult, complex, and important task. I would hesitate to compare our profession to the medical one... They do a far more important job, for (understandably) more money and recognition.

I would expect a bus driver to know how to drive - and to have received some training in driving buses specifically. A degree in bus driving would be overkill, don't you think?

Let's not fool ourselves here - a quick glance at the job market for Chinese language academies, Korean hagwans and Japanese Eikiwas(sp.?) will confirm that a vast percentage (majority?) of English Language Teaching jobs globally are not really that at all. They are "come and look at the westerner freak show" schools or "babysitting" sessions.

Dancing monkey jobs like this require little education whatsoever - as has already been stated ad nauseum by most regulars on this board. Sure thing, in a perfect world, all English teachers would have a degree. But "the perfect world" doesn't stop there. Magically creating a university education for every ELT worldwide isn't the panacea, it's not the sudden solution to everyone's problems.

The issue here is the authenticity of this global "need" for English. As I argued on another thread - it is exaggerated. A large percentage of students sitting in English classrooms worldwide right now have dubious claims to a "genuine" desire to learn practical, communicative English. Often, it is more a case of being here because their parents want them to, to look at a pretty western face, get a high TOEIC score, or whatever. The "i wanna teach somewhere like china cos i heared the girls will shag me" types are a symptom of the state of the job market rather than the complete cause - though they don't help!

Those teachers who are "properly" qualified, I hope, work in institutions which value and reward their expertise accordingly. Those who are not, for the most part, don't.

If and when a more genuine desire to "learn" English comes about (as opposed to, say, "remember" it or "study" it) - then the repercussions in the job market will reflect this.

Sorry! This was supposed to be a light-hearted thread, wasn't it? Embarassed

Wolf · Joined: 10 May 2003 Posts: 1245 Location: Middle Earth

Your points are wonderful, leeroy, but looking throught the names of the people who have posted on the thread so far, I'm sure that we're all aware of this and we all agree.

I'm aware of the "freak show" phenomenon. And I hate it. I really, truly can be said to dispise it as I have experienced it first hand.

The babysitting service mentality is beyond my comprehension. Exhausted children (going to cram school after regular school and before supper or resting) are not going to learin EFL from someone who has neither training in EFL or early childhood development. I remember one day I saw a textbook for NOVA's kids classes (this was around 2000 or so, but NOVA has a reputation of not updating texts all that often). There were NO ENGLISH WORDS ANYWHERE IN THE BOOK. How's that for a professional learning enviornment? Babysitters can be hired much cheaper than enrolling kids in EFL schools.

Yes, many schools don't care what is needed to create a viable learining enviornment. Indeed, many don't even know. One day I was offered a part time job. I couldn't possibly have taken it due to location (on the other side of the province) but they said that they wanted me to come and teach at their school because I was a "foreigner." I couldn't endure it any longer. I asked them: "Really, any non-Chinese national would do? Would you have hired a 7 year old Brazilian kid? Or a child molester (kids' teacher position)? Or someone who has no training or experience in teaching such classes?"

If they ask for just anybody, then they get just anybody. And the vicious cylcle continues.

Student motive? Yes. I've read Japanese discussion forums about NOVA where the students admit that they only go to meet Western women. Sound familiar? The number of actual, motiviated students is far less than the number of students. We can see that this is true by looking at the various TOEIC scores (or other means of measuring EFL ability) of various east Asian countries.

shmooj · Joined: 11 Sep 2003 Posts: 1758 Location: Seoul, ROK

Having read the last two excellent posts I have a theory: there are professionally qualified and serious ESOL teachers out there and I would imagine that their classrooms are filled with the students who really do need and are learning English. Also, playschool English schools will be mostly staffed by people who lack even a degree masquerading as English teachers.

IOW, there is no real need to panic. Real students will not be satisfied until they find a real teacher (no matter the cost) and real teachers will never be satisfied until they are teaching genuine students. This is because real teachers and real students (for want of better terms) would not tolerate anything less than the highest standards. Those who are happy to work in the babysitting=teaching field will have clientele who couldn't care less if the person they paid for this was even literate.

Within the profession, this is quite clear. I would suggest that it's only to those on the outside that this clarity is lacking.