Job Discussion Forums

[killian]

the law is broken everytime i apply for an ESL job. in the states it is illegal to require a photo or ask about age in pursuit of a job. such is the norm in the world of ESL.

i've always wondered how job boards managed to circumvent this flagrant violation of US law while serving as the middle man in recruiting american teachers.

[lostinasia]

You are joking right?

It is NOT illegal to ask for photo, age, marital status, etc. when applying for jobs in China ... U.S. law does not apply to foreign companies operating outside the U.S. Just because you are in the U.S. when you apply for a job in China does mean they are required to follow U.S. law in this matter.

Not only that but U.S. Federal Law DOES NOT prohibit an employer from asking your age or date of birth. The Age Discrimination in Employment Act allows an employer to ask your age or date of birth if there is a legitimate reason for them to ask for that information -- such as to perform background checks or for identification purposes.

Horrible argument.

Gregor's argument is doubly bad - just because you disagree with a law in now way excuses your violation of said law.

Horrible, horrible argument (thus the doubly bad part)

[Ahchoo]

[vikuk]

[johnchina]

Producing/selling/purchasing pirated DVDs is illegal in China, I presume?

So, to pre-empt Gregor and slake vikuk's thirst to discover how to break the law in China and get away with it ...

1. walk into DVD shop or stop in front of guy selling DVDs on street.
2. select DVD
3. pay for DVD
4. walk home

I think the real question should be along the lines of "Would you break a law in China that you would NOT break in your own country?"

Answer for me: Definitely not.

[vikuk]

Hey john I've got another one - lets all walk through a red light when no ones watching (I've done that one)!!!!!
Breaking the law is simple - deciding if it's a reasonable practice aint - and publicly encouraging others to follow suite because I got away with it - well that's starting to test the boundaries of "irresponsible" !!!
When that law breaking takes place in a foreign country then waters are even muddier. Trying to compare that to altering a birth certificate in your home-country, or sending your pic to a potential employer - doesn't exactly clear those waters - and seems to over-simplify the issue into a bit of a joke
And by the way - the kind of common law breaking that most China FT's commit so that they can work in their jobs - aren't simple buying DVD's crimes are they
To tell the truth I don't want to moralise over these acts - but I would like to see a little responsibility and intelligence when they're discussed.

[Ahchoo]

[mgafunnell]

always respect the laws of the host country; if being yourself in your native country doesn't work, it won't work anywhere.

[johnchina]

vikuk - You make some valid points in your post. I was particularly focussing on Gregor's point about whether breaking the law is always so bad. Sure, there are different levels of criminal activity. Buying illegal DVDs is different to working in China illegally, which in turn is different to committing murder. However, they are all against the law.

Murder - I think we can agree that should be punished in every case.
Working in China illegally - Tricky area, given that Chinese law is not always clear and/or easy to comply with and/or varies from province to province. If a decent FT works for a school illegally for a week whilst waiting for some documentation to come through, does that really hurt anyone?
Buying illegal DVDs - Clearly hurts Hollywood, but (be honest!) how much does that really bother you or me? It doesn't hurt China much (if at all) - hence the lowish priority given to it by the police.

As for publicly encouraging others to break the law, well, I've directed numerous people to illegal DVD shops and recommended films they can buy there. If that makes me irresponsible, I guess I'm guilty. However, it's hardly the same as encouraging someone with a gun to shoot another person in the head.

Given that it seems to me to be largely a question of degree, rather than principle, I proposed the question of whether I/you/we would break a law here that we would not break in our home country. I would not fake my birth certificate in the UK or in China. I would buy a pirated DVD in the UK and in China (to answer Ahchoo).

mgafunnell - Do you buy illegal DVDs in China?

[cj750s]

This whole thread is like asking the question are you breaking the law if you drive past those road signs that say "Do Not Pass"?

[Ahchoo]

[Gregor]

Anyone taking anything said on this forum as advice on how to behave in a foreign country is a lunatic and deserves whatever he or she gets. I wasn't giving advice. Just saying what I do. If you don't want to do that, fine. But if you are going to comport yourself in a foreign country based entirely on what I write here and paying no regard to what FEELS right and wrong, well, you really shouldn't leave your house, let alone country.

[vikuk]

But dearest Gregor you're a man of EFL experience - so a certain lunatic element here - looking for tips on how to behave as an FT - may well take your fine law-breaking anecdotes as some form of advice.
As for me I'm far away from angel status - but I prefer to discuss my life of crime in a less public way - weighing up the personality of my audience before I decide to reveal my grimy past. After all becoming a public criminal role model isn't just a matter of that abstract notion of what feels right and wrong for me the individual - its also about being responsible for the way I may influence others!!!!

[james s]

If heroin was legal in CHina, I would do it there.

Well, maybe not, but you catch my drift. When in Rome...

But, I still stick to what my moms taught me.

[Ahchoo]