Job Discussion Forums

[Capergirl]

Having now spent an equal amount of time teaching EFL (in South Korea and Taiwan) and ESL (in Canada), I've come to the conclusion that I have had more job satisfaction teaching ESL. The lure of exotic lands (not partners ) is still ever-present, however I don't know if I would be happy teaching EFL now that I've been teaching ESL for a while.


Why I like ESL:

- No dancing money business
- No co-teaching - all of my classes are *my* classes
- No crazy foreign boss (hey, yours might not be crazy but mine were)
- More than adequate teaching resources
- Lots of support from management
- The ability to give my input re: curriculum, scheduling, or materials (and be taken seriously)
- Field trips (extra points for this one)
- No weekend work except field trips
- No six or seven-day workweeks
- Vacations when I want them (albeit unpaid)
- More diversity - my students hail from many different countries, so I learn about several cultures, countries, and languages
- Plenty of opportunity for professional development
- No culture shock (not for me anyway, but I can empathize with my students' culture shock)


Why I liked EFL:

- The adventure of being in unfamiliar territory, exploring a new culture, a new language, new food, a new lifestyle
- The adrenaline rush of not knowing what to expect from each day (and never being disappointed - quite the roller-coaster ride )
- Being treated like royalty by some of the locals (taken out to dinner or on trips to the mountains, etc.)
- The opportunity for (relatively inexpensive) travel within Asia
- The $$$$ (overall, the money was better in my EFL positions)

The reasons that I liked EFL make me want to do it again, but the reasons why I like ESL make me want to stick with that, too. The pull is more (much more) towards ESL than EFL at this point.

Which do you think is better? EFL or ESL?

[Lynn]

[Sherri]

I understand what you are saying Capergirl, but I have had a different experience too. My school in Japan sounds more like the place you are teaching now. It depends on the kind of school you are working for more than where it is.

When I taught in London, I actually was teaching both ESL and EFL. They were clearly separated by the local authorities. I was teaching in adult education institutes in Chelsea and Hammersmith and Fulham. There it depended on the type of student. EFL students were labelled EFL when they were in the country temporarily to learn English--then go back to their home country to use their English skills. ESL students were people who came to the UK to live. We were supposed to teach the ESL students more survival skills and British culture and focus on that. My own experience of ESL students wasn't so positive as they usually were placed in mixed levels, so we would have people who had lived in London for 10 years (but couldn't speak English) mixed with highly motivated young college-bound students. We also had people who were illiterate in their own language. Because of that I liked teaching the EFL students more, but that was just my own individual experience.

[denise]

I have only taught EFL (I have taught in California, but it was actually EFL--students flying over to study English and then returning home). I would love to give ESL a try, for many of the reasons that Capergirl mentions. I think the biggest reason I'd like to try ESL is relevance: the students actually NEED the language--no worries on my part about whether or not I am forcing my culture/language down their throat (back to that linguistic imperialism debate, anyone?).

Also, I like the thought of the students truly being able to use the language outside the classroom. I get all sorts of bittersweet pangs in my heart when I think of all of the activities that I could do if only I had the authentic materials available to do them. I do try to modify certain activities--I recently gave one of my classes an eavesdropping project and told them to lurk around the school and eavesdrop on the teachers and foreign students--but how nice it would be to actually send them out into an English-speaking community!

I plan on heading back to the States in a few years to give ESL a try, but I know it'll be hard to give up some of the benefits that I've got now--a full-time contract, vacation time, respect, etc.

d

[shmooj]

I, like Sherri, have had a very good deal from my employer here in Japan. I briefly taught ESL in the UK for nearly a year before coming here. I also had, like Sherri, students who had been there since time began in classes with newly arrived immigrants to the UK. It was no fun at all.

I also taught privately one Korean who steadfastly refused to use ENglish outside the classroom. This was frustrating beyond belief for me. It was effectively EFL in an ESL setting. I was at the end of my tether after eight months with him five days a week!

I also taught one Korean high school boy destined to return to Korea for university and needing to pass the ENglish entrance exam. Again, also EFL in an ESL setting. He though, was very very motivated.

I guess it's not so easy to draw clear boundaries between EFL and ESL and say which is better. I've had "American Dream" motivated students here in Japan who finally "made it" in the States. To be honest I have way more respect for my students here who somehow, after only coming once a week, speak relatively amazing English than those who "got by" after years in the UK. It cuts both ways...

[shmooj]

Denise posted while I was so I'll post an extra one to add a comment to her post.

Why should only ESL students "NEED" English? Plenty of my EFL students here in Japan need English for their work, presenting papers, teaching English themselves, as foreign visitor liaisons for their companies. They too are seriously motivated by a very real need for English though many of them have never set foot in an English speaking country.

Conversely, there were many students who were at my ESL college during my first year of TESOL who had been in Britain for over ten years who could not speak English.

I think we need to come out of our shells and realise that simply living in an English-speaking country does not mean we automatically "NEED" English.

As an example, I speak intermediate level Japanese. To be honest though, I could have got away fine for six years here without a great deal of what I learned. Despite living here, there was really no "NEED" at all - there was always a way round actually learning the language if I wanted it.

[denise]

Excellent points, shmooj. I did not mean to imply such a simplistic connection between needing/not needing the language and living/not living in an English-speaking environment. I know from personal experience (as you yourself mentioned) that it is possible to both a) live in a country without knowing the language and b) speak a language without making daily use of it.

I guess I was getting more at what would happen in different scenarios if students didn't know the language/culture. (Maybe in fact I meant culture, and not language?) In my environment now, if the students don't pick up the language, they will not be able to transfer to American universities, which presumably is why they're here. If they don't learn about America, then if and when they do make it there, it will feel more alien to them. They still, however, have the option of just staying here, going back to their parents' homes, going to a Japanese university, etc. They will not be outsiders if they choose to stay home.

In ESL settings, yes, many immigrants can and do function in their L1s, but they may be looked upon as outsiders by the host community if they don't know the language/culture. (I'm not suggesting that they themselves feel like outsiders, or that I think of them that way, or that being an outsider is necessarily a bad thing.) Their lives will/may be more impacted if they do not learn.

d

[Wolf]

I've never taught ESL, exept to one person who was a friend of mine, and that was as a volunteer while I was still a high school student.

I prefer EFL because of the opportunity to live and work in other countries. Capergirl sounds lucky - from what I hear ESL positions are usually not any better than EFL positions.

ESL classes might be more dynamic and interesting - ie having students from various cultural backgrounds rather than just those of my host nation.

But on the whole I'm happy enough as doing what I am - for now.

[Gordon]

Capergirl, I think you've been exceptionally unlucky in your EFL jobs and blessed in your current ESL job. I'd say most EFL jobs are better than the ones you described. If you're happy with your current college job, I'd say stay.
I have taught 2.5 yrs of EFL and 6 yrs of ESL. I would still be in Canada if I hadn't gotten laid off from my last job there. It was a dream, I would have been content to stay there for another 25 years.

In regards to ESL students needing English, I'd say it's very necessary. You can't compare our situation in Japan or elsewhere to theirs. I can live in Japan just fine and not learn Japanese. I still have a good job regardless, but my quality of life is not as good if I can't speak Japanese. In Canada, if you can't speak English or French (in some parts), then you are severely limited in your jobs and contact with other people. I taught new immigrants in Canada and if they didn't learn English, they were left with minimum wage jobs or worse (sweat shops that often didn't pay minimum wage).

[yaramaz]

Just for the record, I get paid a lot more here in cheap, easy Turkey, with free rent, airfare, and about 4 months of paid holidays a year, than I did in the lingo sweat shops of western Canada. I was shuffled around several part time, subbing jobs for almost a year, making $15-$20/hour. I don't think I ever worked a full day or week. I could barely pay rent. It seems to be that way for a lot of my ESL teaching friends back home too.

Also, I have a lot more professional support and respect here-- there, I doubt they cared what I taught as long a the students didn't complain (and when they complained, I found their complaints to be too often contradictory... making lesson planning difficult, esp. with very few resources!)

Maybe if I'd found full time work with respect, professionalism, resources, etc, I'd have stuck around longer as my adult students there were a lot easier to teach than my teenagers here.

[Capergirl]