Job Discussion Forums

ZiCheng · Joined: 13 Apr 2007 Posts: 14 Location: Toronto, Canada.

Hello all,

I recently received a quasi job-offer from Five Continents Together school in Yangshou (their ad is still on Dave's ESL, just search yangshou). They invited me to call them and during the telephone call I asked whether the school will help me obtain a working visa, to which it was replied that in Yangshou you don't need one. Can anyone in Yangshou confirm this?

I have read the post "working on a tourist visa, is that bad?", and it mentions that it may be okay in very small towns. Yangshou is a very small city by Chinese standards, but it is also a very touristy city with lots of foreigners. Also, this whole job is very rushed, School starts september 18th so I am expected to arrive in a few days. What do you guys think? Does this sound fishy?

adamsmith · Joined: 27 Jan 2006 Posts: 259 Location: wuhan

smells like fish to me. In any foreign country, it does not matter the size of the town, if you want to work, you need the appropriate visa to do so legally. If you are happy to break the law, and have no recourse if something goes wrong - then you take your own chances.

It is most likely that they are just trying to get you here quickly, as it takes some time to get the work visa and they have an urgent need for a teacher - but by stating that you dont actually need one they are actually encouraging you to break the law and that would put me to question their trustworthyness.

arioch36 · Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 3589

Fishy? I think it depends on your meaning. Certainly you would be working illegally. But that doesn't mean the school isn't on the up and up ... at least as far as paying you and the such. If they pay all initial expenses, provide a good home and furnishings, it might work out

You do need a work visa to work legally, of course. You probably wouldn't be fined if by chance the PSB came by, but who is going to constantly renew your tourist visa (what is the longest they will issue one for these days?), who is going to pay for it? If it is done every month in Yangshuo, I would think the PSB just might notice

OGFT · Joined: 24 Jun 2006 Posts: 432

This is a very dangerous position to be in with you taking all the risk.
When they state you do not need one, they are unable to provide one and this would be reason to continue your job search.

vikuk · Joined: 23 May 2007 Posts: 1842

The other big danger sign here is that the school is located in Yangshou - so many laowai there - why won't one of them take this job Question

ZiCheng · Joined: 13 Apr 2007 Posts: 14 Location: Toronto, Canada.

Would there be any reason that a school can't provide a work visa, say, if they were a small school or something like that?

Who are the PSB? The person I talked to said that the VISA should be renewed at Hong Kong.

therock · Joined: 31 Jul 2005 Posts: 1266 Location: China

Any school that tells you it's okay to work without the proper visa should be avoided at all costs. Most probably the reason they can't provide the proper documentation to get the Z visa is because they are not licensed to hire foreign teachers.

PSB = Public Security Bureau.

Public Security Bureau = Police

I have a feeling if you accept this job in a few months we will be reading a post here on Dave's ESL Cafe from poor ZiCheng asking us how to get out of a huge mess that he/she is in.

vikuk · Joined: 23 May 2007 Posts: 1842

The school is trying to get you to make visa runs to HK every 3 months or so - and then working you an L or F visa. This is illegal!!!! But many FT's do it!!!!! But then again - if you had some China experience, and were based in China, you could play this game knowing fully what the risks involved were likely to be - and what the working "situation" was like in the place you intended to work (how hot the police (PSB) are in checking up on illegal FT's in that specific location - and, because of its serious nature, this info would be best gained first hand, in-situ - since anyone can write any stuff here).

For a school to tell you this visa arrangement is an OK working situation - well that's just downright dishonest - and all too easy when your so many thousands of miles away!!! And I'm sure they'd never come out with the same BS if they were to employ an FT with experience. So why are they lying to you Idea

Being lied to before you even arrive is a bad way to start a China FT career - and it doesn't just reflect on the visa situation, it may also indicate that more lies and bad working conditions could well lie ahead with this employer!!!!

I do hope the mods notice illegal work is being advertised on Dave's - and Mr. Sperling is giving away the advertising revenue he gains from such deals to Charity!!!!!
Out of interest - has any one else noticed other illegal jobs being advertised here?????

eslstudies · Joined: 17 Dec 2006 Posts: 1061 Location: East of Aden

tw · Joined: 04 Jun 2005 Posts: 3898

According to the job ad here, the city is in indeed Yangshuo and not Yangshou, as ESLStudies has pointed out.

The job ad also clearly states "Assistance in obtaining a proper work Visa", along with the school being "a new and modern English language school", i.e. not legally authorized to hire FT's, as therock says.

OP, move on, keep looking. Take the job, and I bet one month's salary that you will find yourself in knee-deep pile of manure.

InTime · Joined: 06 Dec 2005 Posts: 1676 Location: CHINA-at-large

If it's Yangshuo, that sounds like a "Christian"-run school.
If so, I believe many of their folks work for other-than-money motivation.
Other schools in Yangshuo
Omeida
ZhuoYue

Many foreigners teaching/visiting Yangshuo.
None have YS-issued Z Visas.
Some have Hainan-issued F Visas.
Long history of laissez faire w/certain schools.

In your case,
Caveat emptor.

Cognition · Joined: 22 Mar 2007 Posts: 62

clark.w.griswald · Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 2056

eslstudies · Joined: 17 Dec 2006 Posts: 1061 Location: East of Aden

ZiCheng · Joined: 13 Apr 2007 Posts: 14 Location: Toronto, Canada.

Thanks all.

I am going to reject the offer of employment. I have been in contact with them and they still maintain that a work visa is not necessary to work for a few months (I said I would only want a three month contract). And they did not email me a contract, but said there would be contract when I arrive. Other suspicious qualities about the school is that in their first email they said it would be a volunteer position with only a "basic salary." Also, the ad said that they would provide assistance in getting a work visa, which is contrary to they later said in email and over the phone.

I got an email from a university in changchun for a possible job offer, and what a difference. A contract was included in the email right away, without even the final job offer. I hope to get this job in Changchun.

ZiCheng