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ghost
Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1693
Location: Saudi Arabia
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 Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 3:48 pm Post subject: IPA or PMU? How would you rate these schools |
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How would you rate these Institutions for general conditions for foreign teachers in Saudi?
If you were offered jobs at both places, where would you choose to work?
IPA, I have been told, offer 30 days paid leave in the summer. Not sure about PMU? Other benefits are unknown at this time.
Thank you.
Ghost |
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trapezius
Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 1670
Location: Land of Culture of Death & Destruction
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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I haven't heard of IPA before. What does it stand for, and where is it?
PMU has a mixed reputation. Search for "PMU" and also for "Prince". Some people seem to like it, but, at least from the threads here, >50% seem to not like it. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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IPA is the Institute of Pu8blic Administration. Main campus in Riyadh. Branches in Dammam and Jeddah. Serious place. Trains Saudi civil sertvants. Gooid employer.
John Slattery used to work there. |
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trapezius
Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 1670
Location: Land of Culture of Death & Destruction
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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^ Are you drunk?  |
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ghost
Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1693
Location: Saudi Arabia
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:28 pm Post subject: Transfer |
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| Quote: |
IPA is the Institute of Pu8blic Administration. Main campus in Riyadh. Branches in Dammam and Jeddah. Serious place. Trains Saudi civil sertvants. Gooid employer.
John Slattery used to work there.
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If an EFL Instructor works at IPA (or anywhere else for that matter) for one year, how easy is it to transfer to another Institution in Saudi once the contract has been completed?
Is the paperwork easy to accomplish for the Institutions when a foreigner wishes to move to another place after a year or so? I get the impression it might be difficult to move, so most foreigners choose very carefully where they work in Saudi, and then just stay at that one place. Please correct me, if wrong?
The advantage at IPA is that they employ Instructors, I think, on an ongoing basis throughout the year.
However, I did not see IPA ranked on the Saudi Universities ranking system on this page? Is the place not recognized as a University?
Thanks.
Ghost in Korea |
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Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 12:30 am Post subject: |
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| The IPA isn't a university. Check you are posted to Riyadh. There are problems with IPA Dammam. |
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ghost
Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1693
Location: Saudi Arabia
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 3:53 am Post subject: re IPA |
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| Quote: |
| The IPA isn't a university. Check you are posted to Riyadh. There are problems with IPA Dammam |
Thanks for that. A person working at IPA (I assume in Riyadh) reported that it is a decent place to work, although he commented that he found it frustrating to have to 'sit in his office' (presumably doing very little) before the term starts sometime in September. I think they make teachers return mid August, and just sit around. This detracts from the overall other compensations the Institute may offer, because one of the attractions of Saudi for many, would be the substantial leave offered - possibly the most generous in the world, in our field (thanks to all the Islam holidays as well). Without that significant benefit (leave) the position would not be as attractive, at least for me. But some people prefer money than time off....I tend to prefer the latter, as long as I have enough to travel and visit family and places.
I think newbies at IPA only get 30 days, or so, leave in the summer months, which seems a bit short for the region. I thought that 2 months off (at least) was a norm for the region - because let's be honest - it would be difficult to be productive in the heat of the summer, despite the air con, etc....
I had to work at my job in Korea during July/August 2007, and with the heat and especially humidity, it was a very bad time of the year to be sitting in the classroom - as much for the Instructors as the Korean trainees - and Koreans hate the heat and humidity....probably even more than us westerners.
Thanks for any input.
Ghost in Korea |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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| I get the impression it might be difficult to move, so most foreigners choose very carefully where they work in Saudi, and then just stay at that one place. Please correct me, if wrong? |
You are not wrong. Look up threads with the words NOC or LONO for more details.
Basically, if you are a foreigner who wishes to switch employers in the Kingdom, you have two options - both of which are at the discretion of your first employer.
1) If your employer agrees, you can have your Iqama (residence permit) transferred from employer one to employer two. This process takes anything from 2 weeks to several months, and can be tiresome, espeically because you cannot leave the Kingdom during the process.
2) If your employer agrees to give you the coveted NOC (No Objection Letter) you can return to your home country and apply for a new visa from there. However, if your employer refuses to give you the NOC (as many do) you will have to 'lose' your passport and apply for a new Saudi visa without mentioning your previous stay in the Kingdom. |
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ghost
Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1693
Location: Saudi Arabia
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:27 pm Post subject: re |
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However, if your employer refuses to give you the NOC (as many do) you will have to 'lose' your passport and apply for a new Saudi visa without mentioning your previous stay in the Kingdom.
_________________
There is hope, but not for us |
But even if you lose your passport and get a new one, surely the Immigration authorities can track your name and previous employer through computer records, which would render useless the use of a new passport? - or is the Saudi Embassy and Immigration too lazy to do a search.
Your words mean that newbies should really research where they want to work, and make sure, as much as possible, that the chosen contract will be one which will be ok for at least a year or two.
I have selected about 3 places at this time that I am in contact with, and my first choice, it seems, is the one which is taking the longest to decide. I will just have to wait and see, but your advice about the residence permit (IQAMA) is most useful. Most employers, I think, keep your passport, including most of the ones I have applied to.
How difficult is it to get your passport back when you go on leave 2-3 times a year, or is it a simple procedure?
Here in Korea, to travel in and out of Korea, you need to pay about 30.000 won ($33 u.s.) every time you leave the country, unless you have a multi entry visa. I almost missed my flight to Japan in August, because I had forgotten to get the re-entry permit. But at least in Korea, you get to keep your passport, but your residence permit is linked to your place of employment in Korea, unlike in Japan, where you can change jobs on the same work permit. Japan, though, is much more selective in their recruitment of EFL teachers, and it is not easy to get a job there, especially if you are over the age of 35 or so. Tough market to crack. Korea - benefits are not bad. I save about $1200-$1500 per month on a salary of about $3000 per month. Travel to Seoul every week for Korean language classes gets expensive, but you need an outlet in Korea, and without knowledge of the language, it is pretty difficult in Korea. Very few English speakers, unlike the Gulf Arab countries.
Ghost in Korea |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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| But even if you lose your passport and get a new one, surely the Immigration authorities can track your name and previous employer through computer records, which would render useless the use of a new passport? |
In theory this probably could happen, but I have never heard of it. To be honest, most embassy staff don't seem too interested in whether or not you have an old employer who holds a grudge because you left. However, if it's clearly indicated on your passport that you have worked in KSA in the last year or so, they have no choice but to ask for the NOC - rumours of its demise notwithstanding.
More important is the fact that many employers will refuse to take you on if you did not get an NOC from your previous employer, even if you are prepared to 'lose' your passport.
| Quote: |
| Your words mean that newbies should really research where they want to work, and make sure, as much as possible, that the chosencontract will be one which will be ok for at least a year or two. |
That's all very well, but often you can't know how well you will like a place until you've been there a few months. Plus, new places are opening up at a fairly rapid pace, meaning that better opportunities may present themselves.
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How difficult is it to get your passport back when you go on leave 2-3 times a year, or is it a simple procedure? |
Usually not a problem, but be aware that you need an exit-reentry visa every time you leave the Kingdom. You need your sponsor's explicit permission for this. |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:42 pm Post subject: Re: re |
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| ghost wrote: |
| But even if you lose your passport and get a new one, surely the Immigration authorities can track your name and previous employer through computer records, which would render useless the use of a new passport? - or is the Saudi Embassy and Immigration too lazy to do a search. |
Theoretically yes, but in reality their records are by passport number. This is true in all the Gulf countries and the 'lose the passport' routine has been used successfully for many years now.
I don't think it is actually laziness... just that they don't want to know, if you know what I mean. I suspect that every Saudi embassy is fully aware that if they see a brand new passport, this is the reason.
New employers will likely know since they has seen your CV...
VS |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 4:20 am Post subject: |
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| I do not know about UAE but in KSA the Min of Int records the information not by passport number but by Iqama number. |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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Of course they would have to cross reference to that, but no one leaves the country with their iqama right? As I understood what people have said here, you have either your passport or your iqama. You have to use your passport to leave and enter the country, so naturally whatever ministry runs immigration at the ports of entry would have to use the passport number.
VS |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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| I doubt the Saudi Embassies have any record of the iqama numbers of those applying for visas. Where would they get it from? The Min. of Int faxes all embassies the iqama numbers of all expats, on the off-chance that they might turn up looking for a new visa sans NOC? |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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Is your iqama number entered into your passport?
VS |
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