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hobo
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 91
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 Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:11 am Post subject: Re: DEFINE YOUR TERMS |
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| somnambulist wrote: |
| Hobo, could you actually define to us what you feel you mean with the expression "insult". My point is that even the Danish and Swedish cartoonists would not be so insensitive as to suppose that their illustrations were in no way disrespectful of islamic sensitivities, though perhaps not intentionally so. It seems a flat contradiction in terms, to admit consciously voicing an insult, yet to fail to acknowledge the concommitant disrespect. In short, insult and disrespect go hand in hand. How can anybody not realise this? Would you not feel a conscious disrespect to yourself, Hobo, if I were to insult your culture? Or perhaps from your pseudonym, we are to understand that you actually have no culture, or at least only a rudimentary and uncultivated understanding of it, ie as a target for cheap jokes. |
It was a joke. An idiot would be able to see that.
As far as my handle goes, it's in homage to the greatest dog ever to have graced the airwaves � The Littlest Hobo.
(p.s. you should capitalise the names of religion, some people fins that kind of carelessness when talking about cultures and beliefs rather disrespectful) |
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Laura777
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 101
Location: Istanbul Turkey
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:39 am Post subject: |
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 People please. This thread is about Ramazan; cant we all at least agree that it is a lovely time of year, and stop throwing stones at each other?
If you choose to eat and you live in a Muslim (predominately) country where many if not most of the natives do fast, then at least be conscious that there are those who are fasting and perhaps it might be nice to show a little sensitivity to them.
I am sure everyone here does that already.
When I lived in my home country I fasted as I became a Muslim before I came here. It was during Thanksgiving and Christmas. And trust me I had an insanely difficult time fasting but it was my choice. And those around me tried not to push me to eat. .....But it was their dominant religion that ruled the nation and they had to control. Hence no support for Muslims there. However I maintained my fast.
My point however wandering this post may be is that 'when in Rome do as the Romans do'. If you will not do, at least show consideration for others on a path. |
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somnambulist
Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:50 am Post subject: Re: DEFINE YOUR TERMS |
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| hobo wrote: |
| somnambulist wrote: |
| ... ie as a target [i]for cheap jokes[/i]. |
It was a joke. An idiot would be able to see that.
As far as my handle goes, it's in homage to the greatest dog ever to have graced the airwaves � The Littlest Hobo.
(p.s. you should capitalise the names of religion, some people fins that kind of carelessness when talking about cultures and beliefs rather disrespectful) |
I am not an idiot, as any idiot would see if they cared to read things thoroughly.
PS "islamic" is not a name of any religion. It is an adjective.
Last edited by somnambulist on Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:51 am; edited 1 time in total |
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hobo
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 91
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:51 am Post subject: |
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| dmb wrote: |
| Quote: |
| we are to understand that you actually have no culture, |
that's fighting talk that is. To say Liverpudlians are uncultured. Goodness!!! |
Who are you calling a Liverpudlian? You're getting me confused with Baba Alex. I'm from []'][[[]']'[[][]' |
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dmb
Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Posts: 8397
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:57 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I'm from []'][[[]']'[[][]' |
nice place. I went there a few years ago. |
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hobo
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 91
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:57 am Post subject: Re: DEFINE YOUR TERMS |
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| somnambulist wrote: |
| hobo wrote: |
| somnambulist wrote: |
| ... ie as a target [i]for cheap jokes[/i]. |
It was a joke. An idiot would be able to see that.
As far as my handle goes, it's in homage to the greatest dog ever to have graced the airwaves � The Littlest Hobo.
(p.s. you should capitalise the names of religion, some people fins that kind of carelessness when talking about cultures and beliefs rather disrespectful) |
I am not an idiot, as any idiot would see if they cared to read things thoroughly.
PS "islamic" is not a name of any religion. It is an adjective. |
oh the old "you didn't read the post properly" chestnut. Nice come back.
PS. Adjectives directly derived from proper nouns take capital letters. |
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justme
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 1944
Location: Istanbul
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:15 am Post subject: |
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I haven't seen the Swedish cartoons, but I saw the Danish ones. Really, they weren't all that bad. I mean, I'd imagined they were cartoons of Mohammed in compromising positions with farm animals for that huge reaction they got. But I guess I'd have to be Muslim to understand what's so horribly offensive. Art Spiegelman did a fantastic article on the Danish cartoons, and about 'offensive' cartoons in general, in Harper's several months back, but I couldn't find a link that would open.
To me, it's the sense of humor thing again. I don't get why some Muslims are so horribly sensitive about the slightest hint of poking fun at their religion. Worse, I don't get why running around killing people seems like a good solution for this. I don't go insane when people make even pretty viscious fun of Americans, or women, or blonde people, or English teachers... When Sinead O'Connor ripped up the picture of the Pope, Catholics got their noses all out of joint, but I didn't notice any fatwa out on her. So there's this rather small faction of really violent, awful people who've successfully intimidated the world out of having any kind of objective dialogue, serious or comical, about Islam. One extremist cleric or believer decides they didn't like what someone said or drew or wrote, and bombs start exploding.
On an old episode of the Simpson's, Krusty the Klown does a funny thing for wishing everyone happy holidays: "Have a Merry Christmas, a Happy Hannukah, a Kwazy Kwanzaa, and (looking downwards respectfully) a solemn and serious Ramadan." Funny partly because Ramazan doesn't often fall near Christmas etc., and partly funny because everyone is afraid to say anything funny, or really anything at all that could be seen as negative, about anything Islamic. |
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somnambulist
Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 5:06 pm Post subject: Re: DEFINE YOUR TERMS |
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| hobo wrote: |
PS. Adjectives directly derived from proper nouns take capital letters. |
Mmm, OK. Perhaps the adjective used was wrong in any case. Viz:
Islam/Islamic/Muslim �Islam� is the name of the religion whose final prophet was Muhammad.
�Muslim� is the name used for an adherent of the Islamic faith. �Islamic� is accurately applied only to
what pertains directly to the faith and its doctrines (e.g., Islamic law).
To illustrate the problems inherent in usage, an author might employ a seemingly benign
formulation like �Islamic women� or �Islamic populations,� even �Islamic countries,� when �Muslim�
women, populations or countries are clearly meant. When the historical phenomenon and cultural content
begin to diverge from what is Islamic (doctrinally speaking), the situation becomes more problematic.
Some scholars have tried to identify and describe phenomena such as an �Islamic city� � At their worst,
such incorrect adjectival constructions produce oxymora such as �Islamic terrorists� and �Islamic
militants� or �radical Islam� or �Islamic extremist groups,� frequently used uncritically.
The simplest solution is to use the terms �Islam� and �Islamic� solely for what pertains to the
religion, and use �Muslim� as an adjective to denote the works and acts of Muslims, or groups of people
and their institutions (such as Muslim women or men, Muslim populations, Muslim countries or
civilization, Muslim art, Muslim government or leaders, Muslim extremists). The important distinction is
that human interpretation of Islam by Muslims is necessarily imperfect � In short, human acts and
constructs fall short of being purely Islamic, and therefore may not be denoted as such.
UCLA University Communications
So, we should rather talk about Muslim sensitivites. |
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Golightly
Joined: 08 Feb 2005
Posts: 877
Location: in the bar, next to the raki
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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| OK ladies, handbags away now please.... |
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calsimsek
Joined: 15 Jul 2004
Posts: 775
Location: Ist Turkey
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 8:57 pm Post subject: smoke away |
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Did the run from �skudar to Beşiktaş today, sat outside and almost half of the crowd lit up and smoked away.
This year less people are fasting than before. It might be the İftar time or
the fact that all the CHP voters want to play it up. |
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hobo
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 91
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:02 am Post subject: Re: DEFINE YOUR TERMS |
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| somnambulist wrote: |
| hobo wrote: |
PS. Adjectives directly derived from proper nouns take capital letters. |
Mmm, OK. Perhaps the adjective used was wrong in any case. Viz:
Islam/Islamic/Muslim �Islam� is the name of the religion whose final prophet was Muhammad.
�Muslim� is the name used for an adherent of the Islamic faith. �Islamic� is accurately applied only to
what pertains directly to the faith and its doctrines (e.g., Islamic law).
To illustrate the problems inherent in usage, an author might employ a seemingly benign
formulation like �Islamic women� or �Islamic populations,� even �Islamic countries,� when �Muslim�
women, populations or countries are clearly meant. When the historical phenomenon and cultural content
begin to diverge from what is Islamic (doctrinally speaking), the situation becomes more problematic.
Some scholars have tried to identify and describe phenomena such as an �Islamic city� � At their worst,
such incorrect adjectival constructions produce oxymora such as �Islamic terrorists� and �Islamic
militants� or �radical Islam� or �Islamic extremist groups,� frequently used uncritically.
The simplest solution is to use the terms �Islam� and �Islamic� solely for what pertains to the
religion, and use �Muslim� as an adjective to denote the works and acts of Muslims, or groups of people
and their institutions (such as Muslim women or men, Muslim populations, Muslim countries or
civilization, Muslim art, Muslim government or leaders, Muslim extremists). The important distinction is
that human interpretation of Islam by Muslims is necessarily imperfect � In short, human acts and
constructs fall short of being purely Islamic, and therefore may not be denoted as such.
UCLA University Communications
So, we should rather talk about Muslim sensitivites. |
Whatever dude, it takes a capital letter was my rather obviously stated point. |
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justme
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 1944
Location: Istanbul
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:53 am Post subject: Re: smoke away |
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| calsimsek wrote: |
Did the run from �skudar to Beşiktaş today, sat outside and almost half of the crowd lit up and smoked away.
This year less people are fasting than before. It might be the İftar time or
the fact that all the CHP voters want to play it up. |
I'm leaning towards iftar time. I'll bet fewer and fewer people fast for every day of Ramazan in the upcoming years as fasting becomes more decidedly unpleasant. I'll also bet we'll see a surge of diabetes and other kinds of generalized şeker hastalığı, heart problems, blood pressure problems, etc. Either that, or they'll just go on holiday where the usual rules don't apply and their neighbors won't see them. |
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Laura777
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 101
Location: Istanbul Turkey
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:43 am Post subject: |
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Because it is more difficult in summer time ıt is a more blessed time.
Many people smoke and also not a major sin therefore its common and normal for people to light up after oru�.
This is Istanbul and especially in the more 'fashionable' cities like Sisli and Besiktaş its normal to see those who are more 'modern'. And those who choose to gamble etc.
Whats with all the Muslim bashing on this forum. Many of you are married or dating a Muslim. Do you criticize their choices openly?
Its not about what the neighbors think its a relationship with God and a personal choice and an individual matter.
I was a Christian once. |
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calsimsek
Joined: 15 Jul 2004
Posts: 775
Location: Ist Turkey
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:22 am Post subject: |
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Laura777:
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Whats with all the Muslim bashing on this forum. Many of you are married or dating a Muslim. Do you criticize their choices openly?
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Hang on.  I'm not bashing anyone. My wife fasts every year and I even join in on the odd day, not for religous reasons, but such for support.
This is Turkey and no matter how the world may change, each person has the right to join in or not. No one on this forum would want to bash Turks. Most of us have lived here for more than a few years. We know what the peolpe and country are about.
So please understand that no one here is BASHING any one.  |
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justme
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 1944
Location: Istanbul
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:10 am Post subject: |
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| I'm not bashing Muslims either. Fasting IS about religion and having a relationship with God. I'm suggesting that some people are hypocrites and only fast when it's relatively comfortable for them to do so. I'm also suggesting that some people behave religiously for show, while not actually holding the convictions behind their religion. This type of behavior is certainly not limited to Islam... |
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