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ghost
Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1693
Location: Saudi Arabia
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 Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:02 am Post subject: Korea to Middle East, or Middle East to Korea? Who tried? |
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Have any of you made the jump from Korea to the Middle East, or vice versa? and what do you think the advantages/disadvantages are to both areas?
In my case, I think Korea is a decent deal. I earn around $2800 per month, and save about $1200-$1500. I also get free accommodation, and the work is not too stressful - teaching about 3-4 hours a day, maximum. I teach at a College which trains Koreans to teach EFL. I get about 7 weeks annual leave. I was offered around $4500 to teach in UAE, for one of the Projects. Had to turn it down, for reasons that some of you know about (check the threads about a certain place in Al Ain at the beginning of the year in 2007).
Getting a job at a Korean University, seems to be much harder than landing one in the Middle East. They are much more picky, and prefer to interview you in Korea. Also, unless you have a good portfolio, transcripts, references, etc...you stand little chance of landing a Uni. job in Korea.
In the Middle East, on the other hand, many Institutions hire you no matter where you are - they seem more desperate. Also, it looks like you work longer hours in the Middle East, but the holidays, in general, seem longer compared with Korea. Also the pay is better in the Middle East.
Saudi Arabia, and neighbor countries, I know, pay more in general, and savings can be substantial. But from looking at the threads, it looks like working there can be a bit of a lottery - some very happy campers (like Scot47, and a few others) but others who are not so happy.
Life is short, and I want to give the Middle East a try for at least a year of my career. Paper work seems rather complex for the Middle East with all the police reports and medicals. Does not take long for Korea.
Thanks for your thoughts.
Ghost in Korea |
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Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Getting a job at a Korean University, seems to be much harder than landing one in the Middle East. They are much more picky, and prefer to interview you in Korea. |
Evidently you have a postgraduate degree in Generalizations.
Guess what? Some universities in the Middle East are harder to get in than others. And the same applies for Korea.
If you apply for Seoul National University or KFUPM there will be more required than if you apply for a provincial university in Korea or a start-up (KFUPM will insist on a video interview whilst SNU will require an in-situ demonstration). There are middle-east start ups and provincial Korean universities that will take you sight unseen. Having seen a couple of the examples my last employer hired sight unseen from Korean Universities, as well as having interviewed many Americans and Canadians working there by phone, 'picky' is hardly the word that would come to mind to describe their hiring practices.
One thing I noticed about Korea is that most universities are now eating into the academic vacations with obligatory summer courses, adventure camps and whatnot.
Another point may well be the cost of living. I believe food is pretty expensive.
Incidentally, Dubai has one of the worst climates in the world. I once saw an advert for "Sunny Dubai" and creased up laughing. 120F and 90% humidity is not the expats dream! |
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Henry_Cowell
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 3352
Location: Berkeley
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Stephen Jones wrote: |
| Evidently you have a postgraduate degree in Generalizations. |
 
Welcome to ghostworld, Stephen. |
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ghost
Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1693
Location: Saudi Arabia
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:36 pm Post subject: re |
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| If you apply for Seoul National University or KFUPM there will be more required than if you apply for a provincial university in Korea or a start-up (KFUPM will insist on a video interview whilst SNU will require an in-situ demonstration). There are middle-east start ups and provincial Korean universities that will take you sight unseen. Having seen a couple of the examples my last employer hired sight unseen from Korean Universities, as well as having interviewed many Americans and Canadians working there by phone, 'picky' is hardly the word that would come to mind to describe their hiring practices. |
Yes, you are right. But I was referring to some of the Univesitites in Seoul, which are well rated - the one you mentioned, and also Sogang University, Ewha University, etc....
But overall, I think the Korean Universities can afford to be more picky, since more people choose Korea as a teaching destination, compared with the Middle East, where many feel unsure about the situation with regard to politics, cultural barriers and even personal safety.
Ghost in Korea |
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Gordon
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 5309
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:03 pm Post subject: Re: re |
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| ghost wrote: |
| Quote: |
| If you apply for Seoul National University or KFUPM there will be more required than if you apply for a provincial university in Korea or a start-up (KFUPM will insist on a video interview whilst SNU will require an in-situ demonstration). There are middle-east start ups and provincial Korean universities that will take you sight unseen. Having seen a couple of the examples my last employer hired sight unseen from Korean Universities, as well as having interviewed many Americans and Canadians working there by phone, 'picky' is hardly the word that would come to mind to describe their hiring practices. |
Yes, you are right. But I was referring to some of the Univesitites in Seoul, which are well rated - the one you mentioned, and also Sogang University, Ewha University, etc....
But overall, I think the Korean Universities can afford to be more picky, since more people choose Korea as a teaching destination, compared with the Middle East, where many feel unsure about the situation with regard to politics, cultural barriers and even personal safety.
Ghost in Korea |
I doubt this is true. Anyone with kids would not pick Korea over the Middle East. Single people might. If Korean universities provided yearly plane tickets for a family and int'l school fees (which they don't), then more qualified people would apply. |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Like Stephen, I have met several Korea vets here in KSA. They are not neccessarily the creme de la creme. |
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ghost
Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1693
Location: Saudi Arabia
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 10:40 pm Post subject: re |
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Like Stephen, I have met several Korea vets here in KSA. They are not neccessarily the creme de la creme.
_________________
There is hope, but not for us |
Your are right about that - but then again in this, often, 'default' occupation, who would qualify as 'creme de la creme' anyway? Very few candidates, I am sure you will agree with me on that, as well as your venerable 'friend' - Scot47....
You are right about KSA, but the advantage of KSA and the region is that they tend to advertise more, and the Universities in KSA and the region also use recruiters more compared with Korea which basically does not use recruiters for University positions. Korean unis. just select from the hundreds of resumes and visits which they receive in Korea. And it is almost impossible to land a Korean uni. job without an interview in the country.
In that sense it is harder compared with the Middle East. But the quality, agreed, is not necessarily higher - in fact some of those working at Korean Unis. are veterans of the infamous 'hagwons' and have upgraded their 'skills' to M.A. status making them eligible to work in Korean Unis.
Ghost in Korea |
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Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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And it is almost impossible to land a Korean uni. job without an interview in the country.
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I've seen people hired from Korean universities without an interview. As I would have failed some in the first ten seconds, it doesn't tell me much about the quality of the interviews. Do they check anything else but the white face? |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 6:11 am Post subject: flakey |
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| I have met several flakey characters in KSA who came from Korea, but then there are flakes here from all over. What is surprising is how many of us retain a residual degree of sanity. Of course not all make it. Some cross over into the world from which there is no return. |
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ghost
Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1693
Location: Saudi Arabia
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:39 pm Post subject: re |
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| Do they check anything else but the white face? |
Yes, they do. I do some recruitment for the Teacher Training College in Korea, where I work, and I recruited a PhD from the Texas A & M University (go Aggies!!), and he was turned down, despite all my colleagues saying he was sure to be accepted with his doctorate and publications.
People say the Canadian economy is healthy, but that is a view not shared by the thousands of Canadian graduates in the humanities who cannot find decent employment in Canada. Many of them come to Korea, and the competition for jobs is getting stiffer now, with more applicants for fewer places.
Ghost in Korea |
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MGreen
Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 81
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| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:32 am Post subject: |
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I detect a note of jealousy. Aren't you the guy that got shafted by IAT in UAE. A dodgy outfit to begin with that hired some qualified/ not so qualified teachers to the point to where they were hiring just about anyone.
Why didn't you just apply to the universities in the ME since they're so easy to get into. It sounds like you made a good fit in Korea, your better off there than at IAT.
The university I taught at in the ME turned down a Phd for an MAT, it was a better match. A lot of what we do requires a strong background in SLA/ methodology... which at the MA/DELTA level is enough. |
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dmb
Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Posts: 8397
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| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:27 am Post subject: |
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compared with the Middle East, where many feel unsure about the situation with regard to politics, cultural barriers and even personal safety.
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The ME is not the Bagdad you see on tv with suicide bombers. You have been looking at jobs in the Gulf and I'd say that it was one of the safest places to be. |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:21 am Post subject: |
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| You have been looking at jobs in the Gulf and I'd say that it was one of the safest places to be. |
True, but perception is more important than reality in these situations. For many people, the "Middle East" has all sorts of dodgy connotations of 'instability' 'terrorism', etc. As you say, the Gulf is probably one of the safest - and in some ways, dullest - parts of the world, but some people out there can't distinguish between Gaza and Abu Dhabi.
Seriously. |
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ghost
Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1693
Location: Saudi Arabia
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| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 11:56 am Post subject: IAT |
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| Aren't you the guy that got shafted by IAT in UAE. A dodgy outfit to begin with that hired some qualified/ not so qualified teachers to the point to where they were hiring just about anyone. |
I was all set to go to IAT around December 2006, and they were sending me the e-ticket and set up for the 5 star hotel stay in Al Ain, but when I asked teachers at the project what their thoughts were on the job, not a single teacher reported anything positive about the place - quite the opposite, with some teachers doing 'runners' within the first few weeks on the job - and the contracts were 3 year contracts. The salary and benefits appeared to be good (around 11.000 + 5000 if my memory is right, in the local currency for a total of about 16.000 UAE monies, which I think was around $4500 u.s. per month).
I think it is wise to listen to the teachers. You could go there, but if, in all honesty, the situation was as bad as that portrayed, then giving it a miss was a better option.
Ghost in Korea |
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Bindair Dundat
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Posts: 1123
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| Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:57 pm Post subject: Re: re |
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| ghost wrote: |
But overall, I think the Korean Universities can afford to be more picky, since more people choose Korea as a teaching destination, compared with the Middle East, where many feel unsure about the situation with regard to politics, cultural barriers and even personal safety.
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I don't think so, Ghost. The best jobs in the ME are still highly competitive, as are the best jobs in Korea. While there are people who shy away from the ME, there are also those who shy away from Korea. I think it comes down to personal preferences.
I did my time in Korea (at one of the best universities) and couldn't wait to get back to the ME. I still think of Korea as the "backup" that I hope I'll never need. |
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