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Pow3hatan · Joined: 22 Jun 2007 Posts: 232 Location: INDONESIA

It would be of no use to give a lengthy response to Clark's view. If there were more of Clark's type in this world, many more innocent would be found guilty just based on hearsay and more hearsay from their witness(es).Throughout your contributions to this thread, you have made it clear you are of the mind "Guilty until proven innocent"no matter how flimsy the charges.
I am not hear to try my case on this forum...nor can I with litigation pending. If anybody has any useful advice for the innocent or similar experience to share, I welcome your post. Otherwise, I share what has happened to me as a warning to anyone in Taiwan that this could happen to you too. If we (the accused) keep funning away and don't fight for our innocence, this kind of abuse will continue.
The Clark Griswalds of the world would have us accept the lies against us and submit to injustice. I will fight for what is right, the truth and justice!

TaoyuanSteve · Joined: 05 Feb 2003 Posts: 1028 Location: Taoyuan

Hang in there, Pow3hatan. We don't all prescribe to the Clarkian view of Taiwan.

Not sure if you have already, but if I were you I'd: 1) contact your country's trade office, fill them in on what's happened and ask for assistance. 2) get a good local lawyer and counter sue 3) Ignore Clark.

I hope things go your way.

forest1979 · Joined: 10 Jun 2007 Posts: 507 Location: SE Asia

Pow3hatan - Sorry to hear of the bad outcome. Hang in there.

Sorry to of the naivity of Clark. I certainly don't agree with his viewpoint on your workplace situation, and as far as I can see your employers have done their best to confirm assumptions about your alleged behaviour. The fact that the student involved is getting tearful is as sure sign of guilt and stress as you can get, unless you look in a different direction!

Someone like yoursefl sticking to your principles is something TEFLers in Taiwan need as it's far too easy to be tarred guilty before innocent. As far as I would like Taiwan to be, as of course Clark is bound to disagree with this, as foreigners we do get the rough end of the stick and you're actions in digging in to get justice only helps TEFLers in the long run. Good luck to ya!

BJ · Joined: 03 Dec 2003 Posts: 173

A suggestion. Having worked in colleges and Universities for over 12 years in Taiwan, here are two possible questions to ask.

1. Has the student been seeking mental help of the college counciling/medical services prior to the alleged molsetation.

2. Have her grades been slipping recently. or has she had a loss of face.

Teaching English through drama, I frequently touch the young men/women in my class and have yet to be reproached. AS such it is weird that she would bring forward these charges. This is why i think there is more too it than meets the eye. ATtention seeking or medical problems could be a cause.

Unfortunately in Taiwan money does rule. Students frequently have a large say in the future of teachers, especially those new to the department.

Have you been given a teaching clearnece form from the government. These are normally produced after a probationary year, and all documentation has been checked. If so you can lodge an appeal to the ministry of education.

As to Mr Griswald, take him with a large pinch of salt. His advice while often good is also frequently laced with very thinly veilled accusations or attacks on anyone questioning the ethics of Taiwan managers/owners.

Miyazaki · Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 635 Location: My Father's Yacht

Henry_Cowell · Joined: 27 May 2005 Posts: 3352 Location: Berkeley

clark.w.griswald · Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 2056

Pow3hatan · Joined: 22 Jun 2007 Posts: 232 Location: INDONESIA

Thanks Taoyuan Steve, Miyazaki, BJ, Forest1979 for your more positive feedback and encouragement. The comments about the possible state of the accuser's mind are very valid. I already mentioned this to the committee at our meeting back in July but they would not acknowledge this point. She was one of my students last year and her behavior at that time was sometimes odd. I will keep tracking this possibility as I think it has some small to large part in the "why"of the accusation. There's plenty weird about the student and her accusation.
You're also very right that the accusation and the statement of the student's "weeping, being socially withdrawn..."are not consistent. In fact, after the decision letter I have been digging further into what's behind this accusation and the student and have found some interesting & helpful evidence on the internet to disprove the statement and show the accuser's lack of credibility. As I'm finding out, there is much more behind this whole thing than meets the eye. The student's accusation was actually the means to achieve another purpose for herself and a few others at the college.
The lawyer who has been helping me with the school process these past months probably is not suited for the legal action, so now I'm looking for a new lawyer, somebody aggressive and experienced who will settle for no less than the truth being proven and a win in this case. I will also contact AIT to let them know of this case now that the school has made it's "fixed" decision.
Agree with you all too that the best way to handle those who have little constructive, objective or fair to say is to pay little mind to their diatribes. I know what happened/didn't happen, who I am, and what I need to do to fight this injustice.
Clark: if you want to know all the evidence, proof, facts, etc I have on my side then you're welcome to follow this case in court...or read the book/see the movie in the future!

clark.w.griswald · Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 2056

Nothing further about the video evidence that proves your innocence?

Henry_Cowell · Joined: 27 May 2005 Posts: 3352 Location: Berkeley

jwbhomer · Joined: 14 Dec 2003 Posts: 876 Location: CANADA

forest1979 · Joined: 10 Jun 2007 Posts: 507 Location: SE Asia

I think he means his lawyer is not suitable for the TYPE of case. Lawyers, like people in other occupations, specialise and have different skills. Seems like the nature of the case is not best for the lawyer, hence a more suitable one is sought.

BJ · Joined: 03 Dec 2003 Posts: 173

Clark, asking for the evidence? to satisfy you he should link to the whole video, and write detailed reports of everything? Wow someone disagrees with you and the venom shows though so quickly
Of course no one can be 100 percent, not even you. perhaps god but man?
When he says video, i presume he means video of the accusation. WItness for him, again i seem to remebr they were int he room also during the allegation.
Lawyer, he said he wasnt suited for the type of litigation.meetings that would be needed. If i remembr again he said that it was an friend of a friend. Not necesarily someone who understands the ins and outs of the educations system.
If you think you are right then normally the opponent is wrong, or am i missing something here?

Another thought, what commotion went on in the classroom when the waist was touched? From her reaction I would have thought people would have noticed her reaction if it was in fromnt of the class, be int freezing, moving away rapidly, saying something? or is it post traumatic shock she is claiming.

Henry_Cowell · Joined: 27 May 2005 Posts: 3352 Location: Berkeley

forest1979 · Joined: 10 Jun 2007 Posts: 507 Location: SE Asia

I'll be blunt and say that as much as I don't agree with what most of Clark says, and I get fed up of his dogmatism, he does infrequently raise points that are certainly worth discussing further. However in the context of a legal case where the plaintiff has the right to hold back certain pieces of information I think it's a bit shallow to jump to conclusions over video evidence and the like.

So...back to the case itself...

I'll be upfront a say that the so called distressed 'abused' student has some problems. Anyone who turns into a nervous wreck due to a light brush on the waist has either been living in a convent or has some deep emotional issues beforehand. The fact that the distress caused has been so profound and drawn out appears to me, in my position of not knowing all the OPs evidence, seems that she, the 'abused', is well out of her depth and suffering now from guilt in what was an accusation that has become a full-blown legal case. In probably what was a quest for attention has now become a self-fulfilling prophecy, albeit in the way she never expected. I mean, how many foreigners get legal assistance in standing up for their rights? Basically none as most foreigners are left with little choice but to hot foot it to the airport. This time, thankfully, Pow3hatan is making a stand.

As for the employers, I am sad to say, and I have seen this myself in colleges and universities, far too often assumptions are made about how people (teachers and students) behave. I have seen heads of department draw knives out to students over silly things based on accusations and their assumed meanings, and teachers who have socialised with students accused of being raging alcoholics for ordering a single beer! Do I see the employers ever backing down on this despite Pow3hatan's legal interventions? Quite simply no. There's now a major matter of face to be lost if they do, and also from seeing these institutions operate at first hand they go full pelt to in effect make their assumptions 'appear' as fact. What this means is that the picture painted by Pow3hatan will be disproved, argued over, etc., so that the employers assumptions of his nature are in effect turned into 'truth'. Through pressuring the alleged 'abused' girl they can do this and discrediting him they will be successful.

I wish Pow3hatan all the best for his case but I think it's a losing game. More power to him for standing up to his rights but I just don't see his employers backing down. Clark may wave the flag of Taiwan as a place of paradise but Pow3hatan's story proves this as a fallacy. The fact that a good teacher has been blackballed shows the fragility to being a foreigner in Taiwan. I genuinely hope he wins his case but the cards are stacked against him. I've also seen unis throw vast sums of money on projects that ultimately come to nothing - the employers stand against Pow3hatan regardless of cost is just an extension of this process. Good luck to Pow3hatan but if nothing else when you are accused of something in Taiwan, as a foreigner it is very difficult to to 'disprove' the accusation. Literally it is a 'he said, she said' scenario and unless Pow3hatan gets some pretty major evidence to back his case the tide of the sea is against him. This if anything is something Clark should spend more time to address.