Job Discussion Forums

[hairuo]

Does anyone out there, actually, know anyone that has gotten into trouble over teaching on a L or F visa? A collegue and I were having this discussion about visas, and the question came up. Please pm if you dont want discuss here. But if you know someone who was deported or fined or whatever, please give me the details....withhold the name if you need too. thanks

[jeffinflorida]

Yes a friend - not a friend of a friend - someone I actually know worked for an English Mill in Fujian.

The school was accused of stealing money from their students and raided.

He was fined and DEPORTED to Korea for working on an L visa.

Got a new visa in Korea, came back into China and has worked steadily ever since.

BTW, still working on F or L visas... Goes to Hong Kong every 90 days to exit or get a new visa.

[latefordinner]

I posted this story some time ago, I'm a bit surprised you haven't come across it, or any of the many others like it. I had problems some few years ago. My employer couldn't get me a Z visa and somehow couldn't extend my F. I overstayed my visa, waiting for them to renew it. I paid the fine (almost the maximum) before the police would let me board my plane. After coming back with a new F visa I had further problems with that school, including the airfare they never paid and the pay withheld they never delivered. My own take is that working on an F or an L is akin to wearing a sign, "Please Steal From Me!"

[lostinasia]

And yet people are still ridiculous enough to blatantly violate the law.

[arioch36]

YES

But don't take it from us. I am sure you can find someone to say..., "Well I know people who worked on a L visa and had no problem"
And it's true. And there are people who still don't use condoms. But it only takes once

Usually just fines and weeks of hassles if you are caught. And grovelling. The PSB loves a little grovelling. Write a self-critique. And if the school stiffs you on anything, how will you complain? Nobody can legally help you.

[clark.w.griswald]

[hairuo]

Let me clarify a couple of things. I am in a very high and remote part of China. I just accepted a position here....got here, and found that the teachers are at a school that has lost its foreign teacher license or whatever it is called. I asked many time before coming here that there would be no problem getting the correct visa. Again, after getting here, I find that the teachers are on a F visa. I stated, very clearly, I was not willing to teach illegally here or anywhere else. I told the other teachers here that I had read many things about visas and problems and etc, here on Daves. One of the teachers asked me if I had read where anyone actually got into trouble...so hence my questions. That teacher did not know until last week, before I arrived that it was illegal to teach on an F visa. I am, quite frankly, surprised that there are those ignorant about the laws of China.

[tw]

My American colleague, well, semi-colleague as she is hired by the main campus, told me that she had been teaching with a L visa at two language mills before being hired by the main campus, and that FT's working illegally is very common in Dalian.

One of my colleagues in Changchun worked in Dalian for 18 months on a F visa.

[latefordinner]

Ignorance of the law comes in all shapes and sizes, from the "Gosh, I didn't know that!" to the "close my eyes and pretend I don't see it" to the "Everybody does it, who cares?" That doesn't change the fact that what you're doing (or thinking about) is illegal, that your prospective employers are willing to break the law, or that you will be at their mercy if and when something goes wrong. If you're comfortable in that situation, then fine. I was comfortable my first year and had a good (mostly good)work envirionment and relationship with my employer. My second year I got burnt like toast and had no legal recourse. No one to blame but myself for that. Arioch36's analogy is apt, I think.

[seperley]

I believe that on the uni level, the FAO's guanxi can influence an FT's status regarding visa and work issues.

[upchuckles]

Yuppirs..

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119022511204632617.html?mod=hps_asia_whats_news

[OGFT]

[englishgibson]

well, there's no best choice.....inproper visa may get you deported ... proper visa may provide you with all sorts of responsibilities you do not want to take...say, you're under a lame contract with duties of a clown and you're not allowed to talk about it 'cause there's a clause somewhere there

i've known a teacher, well DoS, who's got himself fired for trying to do his job properly..that's just happened a few months ago...the employer reported him to the local police station too

peace to the improving chinese system of hiring foreing labor
and
cheers and beers to FTs that know what to do when the storm comes

_____________________________________________________________
if i don't finish my contract, i'll have to leave china

[tw]

I was illegal once, to a certain degree. What happened was that I'd arrived at my first school in Qingdao with a FEC and Z visa in April 2003. Upon finding out that the school was extremely dishonest, I decided not to sign a contract and left after teaching there for two and half months. However, the school kept my FEC or they wouldn't pay me for my final month's work. They even wanted to keep my FRP green booklet, and I had to tell them no because then I wouldn't be able to stay and travel within China (a lie), and would never be able to leave China without it.

So, I went to work at a newly opened language training centre that was obviously not allowed to hire FT's. The owner found me because her older sister was responsible for handling FT's documents at the first school, and had passed my telephone number to the owner. The owner was looking for FT's to teach at the school's summer camp program, and was surprised when I asked to be a full-time teacher, but agreed. For the next six and half months I worked for her without a FEC, well, without actually having it in my possession. She had said she was going to offer me a contract near the end of the summer camp, but used the old you-have-a-Chinese-face-so-it-is-not-feasible-for-me-to-keep-you excuse to get rid of me after the summer camp ended. Out of desperation, I had to practically beg her to let me stay and work for her.

When it was mid-January 2004, I asked her to help me renew my FEC and that's when she decided that she had enough use out of me. Her sister made a photocopy of my FEC but the authorities wouldn't accept it. When I asked the owner to get me a L visa, she claimed that the authorities said they couldn't, but I know it was because the owner didn't want to try and pursuade the authorities. It was a day or two before my FRP would expire when I boarded a flight and flew to Beijing, then leaving for Vancouver the same day as all flights out of Qingdao for Vancouver had been booked solid up until Spring Festival. When I handed the PSB my passport at the airport, I was nervously praying they wouldn't ask me for the FEC. Of course, it would be another year before I would learn that many schools do ask the FT's to return their FEC when their contract has expired.

It was a scarey experience, one that I would never want to go through again. Now, no matter how bad a school is, I have sworn to grind it out and stay for the duration of the contract.

[englishgibson]

i didn't know i needed an Foreign Expert Certificate to leave the country...i've done without it, and had no idea i could've got asked for it

cheers and beers to all experts that help the chinese education