Job Discussion Forums

Wouter · Joined: 06 Oct 2004 Posts: 128 Location: Tlaquepaque

It amazes me every time we hire teacher that has been teaching at another school how they have no idea what they are entitled to beeing a teacher.

Here a small list of things that you are entitled to for all those people who dont know.

For your FM3 (work permit)
a letter from the school saying that they want to hire you
Some other papers that they have to show to get you your FM3

As soon as you have your FM3
Health insurance (by law)
Pension (by law)
Infonavit (saving pot for buying a house) (by law)
Aguinaldo (15 days average salary paid before the 20th of December) (by law)
vacaciones (6 days average salary paid after a year working or pro rata if you leave earlier)
pre vacaciones (25% over the vacaciones paid after a year working or pro rata if you leave earlier)
Paid income tax

Be aware that officially you can get only 6 days of vacation after a year of working for the company. Official holydays have to be paid by the school as wel as school vacation. Discus this before you take the job.

For the pension, health insurance, infonavit and paid income tax the school has to register you with the IMSS. This is the organisation that arranges the income tax. As soon as they have done this you will get a number. With this number you can get free health insurance.

As long as they dont give you this number there will be a big chance that they didnt do it.

What to do when you dont get what you were entitled to!

There are to ways of doing this. A nice way and a not so nice way.
The nice way would be asking for all this stuff before you get the job. As far as I know from teachers about 75% or more schools wont give you this. Often they even dont want to help you with your FM3. This will mean that or your take the job without these benefits or start looking for another school.

The less nice way is confront them with this when you are leaving. A lot of teachers are afraid of doing this because they dont have an FM3 and are illigal in the country. This is were the schools think that nobody would try anything. I will tell you this. A school pays a very high fine when they didnt offer you the things that they have to by law. They have to pay all the cost of what they should have paid for the IMSS besides a very high fine.

Aguinaldo, vacaciones and pre vacaciones together can easily run up to around 5000 pesos a year.

In case something happens to you or you get in to an accident they are still responsible for you health insurance. Even if they didnt register you. It is their responisbility to do so. If something happens tell them this. They would probably offer you private healtcare to avoid the fines.

Even if you dont have a contract you dont have to worry. As long as you can prove you were or are working for the school they will get fined.

For income tax I am not 100% sure that they have to pay everything. I heard that the teacher has to pay a really small percentage. Hear of people paying between 30 and 50 pesos a month and the rest was paid by the school.

For all these things it is very importened that you can prove that you work for the school. Make sure that you have prove. Even from students or other teahers. Any thing that shows that you are working for them.

Hope this helps teachers on their way. Salaries are not very high in Mexico so better get the things they should offer any way.

Wouter

GueroPaz · Joined: 07 Sep 2007 Posts: 216 Location: Thailand or Mexico

Thanks. That post looks valuable enough to be pinned/stickied near the top, unless there's a similar one already pinned.

How many of these things apply to an independiente? None?

Dragonlady · Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 2:53 am Post subject:

deleted

out of date

Samantha · Joined: 25 Oct 2003 Posts: 2038 Location: Mexican Riviera

I�m with you Dragonlady. This information is misleading and could serve to do more harm than good. I also wonder the purpose of the post and hope it's not school rivalry again.

Wouter · Joined: 06 Oct 2004 Posts: 128 Location: Tlaquepaque

Dragonlady,

Dont have all the facts but I think these are enough facts to make teachers aware that they are entitled to more then only there often low salary.

IMSS, which includes health insurance, pension, Infonavit and income tax is by law and has nothing to which kind of contract you have. Sounds also very logical as it would be very funny if there was a form of contract where you dont have to pay income tax.

There is one way to get out of paying IMSS. This is when the teacher is a freelancer. This means that the teacher has to be registered with the Hacienda (tax office) and has to give the school invoices for the work he did. Never met any teacher Mexican or foreign who was in this situation. Really is not worth it as you have to pay IMSS your self. The cost for IMSS depends on the amount of money you make a month. Depending on this cost are from around 700 pesos till 1500 pesos or more a month.

Maybe it would be easier to find good teachers if a school would offer the benefits that they should. I guess teachers would be more interested in the job if a school offers things like health insurance.

Samantha

This has nothing to do with a school rivalry. Funny that Dragonlady and you react like this. I think this board is for teachers and I think this post helps teachers to be aware of what there rights are. Dont think there is any thing wrong with this.

Phil_K · Joined: 25 Jan 2007 Posts: 2041 Location: A World of my Own

Wouter · Joined: 06 Oct 2004 Posts: 128 Location: Tlaquepaque

Phil_K,

Good information. Never new and never heard of teachers being registerd with the hacienda. Could you explain how you can do this as I dont understand how this would work for a foreigner.

To get a regular working visa FM3 you have to work for a company. I heard of another form of FM3 were you can have your own company but it is quite a hassle to get this one and also more expensive and more work. The contract form were you are talking about is called "asimilado a sueldo", right?

In this situation the teacher has a contract for less then a year and has to have more then one employer. The next year he or she has to have a new contract with different kind of work. What I understood is that you cant work two years for the same company as a teacher. In this case they will say you are not a free lancer but a normal employee.

The teacher will be responsible for their own taxes, health insurance, infonavit and pension and dont get aguinaldo, vacaciones or pre vacaciones.

As far as I know in this case you also have to provide the school with your own invoices which you have to have printed with an printer who is certified to print invoices. Please let me know if this is correct. These are also extra costs.

In this contact form they basicly loose all their benefits and even have to pay their own taxes and have to have their own invoices printed.

This means that salaries should be a lot higher than regular contracts as I see it.

For a company It's the service you give to your clients that counts. For a teacher it is I think the work environment and pay that counts. I am not looking here from a company point of view.

Phil_K · Joined: 25 Jan 2007 Posts: 2041 Location: A World of my Own

Wouter · Joined: 06 Oct 2004 Posts: 128 Location: Tlaquepaque

Very helpfull information.

Phil_K · Joined: 25 Jan 2007 Posts: 2041 Location: A World of my Own

I have to leave now. I will post this evening to clarify.

MELEE · Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 5:35 pm Post subject:

I also think there are a lot more teachers working for honorarios than you might imagine wouter.

You get your FM3 or FM2 based on a job and you show what your salary will be in the letter from the employer, it never says anything about how that salary will be paid. That's not any of INM's business.

Getting invoices printed up is a lot of fun I think! And they have recently made it easier to pay your own taxes this way.

Wouter · Joined: 06 Oct 2004 Posts: 128 Location: Tlaquepaque

So if I understand right.

You apply for an FM3/2 with a letter from the school that offers you a contract for honorarios. Then you will get a standard FM3/2 as you are working for a company with a normal contract. For the INM it looks like the school has a new employe.

I always thought you needed a special FM3/2 if you want to work as a freelancer as you more or less have your own business. Is this true or is it exactly the same FM3/2??

Wouter

Phil_K · Joined: 25 Jan 2007 Posts: 2041 Location: A World of my Own

MELEE · Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:34 pm Post subject:

But employers can decide to pay employees in honorarios, even if they pay them a set salary. Some places offer employees a choice, do you want nomina or honorarios? some times company offer a slightly higher salary for employees who go the honorarios route because they don't pay the other benefits that accompany nomina. I could offer you a job, provide you with the job offer letter and my tax information for INM just the same regardless of whether you were on the nomina or getting honorarios.

I know this because most text book publishers have the majority of their "academic" staff on honorarios rather than on nomina.

Phil_K · Joined: 25 Jan 2007 Posts: 2041 Location: A World of my Own

...but using the criterion I mentioned earlier, how would I get the honararios if I don't inform INM? ...unless I borrow someone elses, and you can't do that forever. Whatever the arrangement, the employee still has to supply the receipts. For this reason I would advise anyone going to this kind of company to negotiate the "asimilados" route. Any incorporated company can do it. (I can't)