Job Discussion Forums

Phil_K · Joined: 25 Jan 2007 Posts: 2041 Location: A World of my Own

I have a potential client (a company) that wants to have classes in groups of 15 students. For question of space, that is not negotiable.

This is against most peoples principles for company classes, but as from a financial POV it is good for me (less teachers), and the fact they have many groups, it is a juicy bit of business. I was wondering:

I have no experience of the kind of institution, university, whatever, that might have large groups - my wife said she took English in The Anglo with groups of more than 20! hated it and quit in one month - what advice can you give about making classes effective if you do have this experience? And any other thoughts related to this.

Guy Courchesne · Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City

I'd say start it off at 15. It seems an inevitable truth in Mexico City business English classes that after 4 weeks, close to half of them will drop out of the class anyway, for not having time to make it to class.

cangringo · Joined: 18 Jan 2007 Posts: 327 Location: Vancouver, Canada

I agree with Guy, your class will end up being much smaller than originally planned.

As for suggestions, I would suggest doing a lot of pair work and there are a lot of practice activities that get everyone involved. I have a class of 20 or so kids and that is difficult (because they�re kids) but manageable. It depends what kind of lessons you are doing, are they taking business English or are they still learning everyday English??

Phil_K · Joined: 25 Jan 2007 Posts: 2041 Location: A World of my Own

MELEE · Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:23 pm Post subject:

I teach classes up to 32 students.

it requires a very different kind of classroom management--some teachers can't handle it---for others it's no big deal.

I've gotten to the point where a class of under 12 is uncomfortable for me!

But I also agree, if you cap it at 15, you will soon have less than that, even if the company requires them to remain enrolled, their will always be 3 or 4 absent.

jessn · Joined: 30 Sep 2006 Posts: 20 Location: Vermont, USA

The ways to get groups talking can be boiled down to a nice mix of small group work, "survey" type activities, and lively whole group activities involving to-the-point games and questions. If they can have fun and feel like they're learning, perhaps you will be stuck permanently with all fifteen!
Small group work means that you model the skill, and then break students into twos or threes, whichever you need (like for an introduction or restaurant scene you need three) have them practice it, and create their own "take" on it and then do it for the group. Select the groups by having their names on file cards and drawing them, so they can see it's a random process. In more advanced classes, the small groups can discuss a topic and bring lists of pros and cons to the big group, or lists of things, like favorite athletes and so on.
With survey activities, everyone gets a class list -- you have photocopied dozens -- and a question involving the skill or topic of the day. Then they meet up with everyone in the room, and ask their question and record the answer on the class list sheet. You can have them all ask the same question, like, "What department do you work in"? or you can give them all different, but related questions. Eg: "How many children do you have?" "Sisters?" "Brothers-in-law?" etc. I'm sure you can modify the questions to meet the needs of the company that hires you.
Then they come back to the big group and give their results, summarizing them -- "three people studied engineering; two people studied accounting" or averaging them --"The average number of bicycles, or children, or whatever in this class is 2.6."
Big group work -- all kinds of word and number games, carefully tailored to your topic du jour . (Like "Buzz" for teaching numbers to 100), Kim's Game for teaching objects. Lightning or chain drills where one student asks another the question you're working on and that person answers and then asks the question of another. In a chain drill, you ask the person next to you; in a lightning drill the Q & A zig-zags around the room. To get them to listen to each other, set up a simple signal telling one person to lie. Then after all have asked and answered the question, ask the class "who lied?" A favorite game is "Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire" in which each person weaves one lie into his or her little speech. So, for example, practicing the past tense, you ask them to tell four things they did on the weekend. Then the class has to guess which of the four things was a lie. This keeps them all listening to one another instead of nodding off. Beware of team games unless you can make sure people are evenly matched at the start -- but nothing says that even adults won't mind tossing a ball around -- as in, if you can name one office item, the ball goes to you, and then to the next person who calls out another office item, (or animal, or food, or whatever it is you're working on).
My personal experience in classes of Spanish-speaking adults tells me that they enjoy working in groups, perhaps more than similar groups of Anglos, but then that would be (gasp) generalizing wouldn't it?
Diviertate and prosper

GueroPaz · Joined: 07 Sep 2007 Posts: 216 Location: Thailand or Mexico

You think 15 is too many? Great! In Thailand, we think 53 is too many. I've often managed classes between 25 and 52. I wish they could skip class! In some American uni's, lecturers can have lecture halls of over 100 freshmen.

At least with a pool of 90 students, you can separate them by ability. After classes start, it would be better to reassign students into more appropriate levels.

A class roster of 15 soon will mean 10 or 12. Plan activities that break them into smaller groups, and then walk around checking the groups.

I love private tutoring, one on one. Only once did I allow two of them to share the lesson, because they were the same level, best friends, and studying from the same chapter of their textbooks.

Phil_K · Joined: 25 Jan 2007 Posts: 2041 Location: A World of my Own

TheLongWayHome · Joined: 07 Jun 2006 Posts: 1016 Location: San Luis Piojosi

MELEE · Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 4:54 pm Post subject: Re: Large Groups

Phil_K · Joined: 25 Jan 2007 Posts: 2041 Location: A World of my Own

TheLongWayHome · Joined: 07 Jun 2006 Posts: 1016 Location: San Luis Piojosi

ddeubel · Joined: 18 Jul 2005 Posts: 39

Jessn,

Great post and yes, it can still be "fun".

I think teaching large groups is all about classroom management and managing the ebb and flow of the lesson - moving from whole class to small groups / pairs and back. Keeping things moving along and active.

With business classes, presentations in small groups, whatever the topic, is very effective. Also a balance of book/non-book work is needed.

Also that big caveat with adults, give them choice! A biggee that so many teachers don't do. They want to have atleast the "appearance" they are in control of the agenda.....

DD