Job Discussion Forums

[jeffinflorida]

A real degree or a fake degree, the truth is all the chinese care about is the white face and ability to speak English...

Do you really think most chinese schools care whether the teacher holds a degree in advanced applied economics or advanced engineering of the woven basket?

Really I think they just don't care...

It's about how white is the teacher and how low can they pay them...

[eslstudies]

I'm unsure whether the OP's intention was to raise the question of false credentials, or to "out" one @@, her "old colleague". The school's website and @@'s photo and details are very easy to find. On further reflection, I'm inclined to go for the latter option. Why mention initials otherwise?

The other matter is that of the academic status of the school. Despite its title of an %%%% school, it seems to offer the IB at both middle years and diploma level yet, in its own publicity, says it is awaiting IB accreditation. Target students would seem to be children of expats [Koreans get a mention on the website] in Changchun involved in that city's automotive industry, at a guess.

[englishgibson]

[seperley]

Flutter,

I don't know how common this phenomenon may be, but I watched a former colleague accrue American college degrees and certificates every six months without even leaving China.

It was interesting in the beginning. He touted himself as having been a former school principal. Then one night, when we were having a few beers, he admitted that he had only a TESL cert that he got online in another country just prior to his arrival in China. A quick look at his Passport indicated a year later indicated that he had not just arrived from that country. His passport bore the sticker of the American travel document service that handled his passport application. His Chinese F visa was the only thing that appeared in his passport.

In two years' time, he has accrued a BA in History, an MSc, a tesl certification from Edmonton, Canada, and he has become a former portfolio manager for an investment firm, a former third grade teacher, a former professor at Brandeiss, a former fireman, paramedic, and a retired naval officer.

I am no longer working at his school, but I Googled his name, and I found someone with the same name whose credentials resemble some of this guy's credentials and supposed residence in two other countries, but the dates don't fit this guy's bio. They're off by a year or two. Incredibly, the university posted his photo and a brief synopsis of his resume online.

To me, it appears that he has not only lied about his degrees, but he may be engaging in some sort of identity theft.

Before I left the university, I had a chat with the FAO. My advise was that the university should check the credentials of applicants, and I provided the name of a company that supplies confirmation of attendance and awarded degrees from schools who subscribe to the service. (I believe that most U.S. universities subscribe to this service now, just to relieve themselves of the burden of answering inquiries from prospective employers).

The FAO's reply was this: "We keep him here because of his personality."

I never even mentioned the guy's name. The FAO knew who I was talking about. What the FAO did not know about the guy is that students complained to me about his continual discussions about sex during his American history class.

We were recruited by the same recruiter. The recruiter bragged to me that she managed to get a job for a man had been a janitor in the states for thirty years. She said that he was now working at a well-known and supposedly renowned Chinese university. She said that she could get degrees "just like yours" for next to nothing.

I believe that what you describe is probably common. If it has happened twice, it has probably happened dozens of times.

[flutterbayou]

I find much of what I'm reading on this thread interesting, and would like to add one note on legitimate Chinese employers: they check out their applicants' work history.

Each quality job I ever held in China telephoned my university in the United States and inquired directly of the English Department as to whether I had taught there. I know because I have received confirmation from my home university.

One employer went so far as to speak further with the payroll department to confirm exact dates of employment. This all happened within China.

Now hear this:

No one would be fired over this situation at the unnamed school in Changchun, primarily because the owner of the school is aware of the false credentials. I would never want anyone to lose a job unfairly - why do I say unfairly?

. . . because no one needs all those false credentials to teach elementary and high school subjects. The actual credentials for teaching any of the courses at this particular school would be a BA, which two thirds of the faculty do.

But I really appreciate some of the insight writers are contributing to the concern. What I see here is that several people agree with me that fraud lowers the credibility of true teachers and, consequently, provides employers an excuse to lower wages.

And in this particular case, I tend to think that the employer actually encourages his people to stretch the truth to elevate the reputation of the school.

[tw]

If an employer forges my credentials without my knowing it, I would not even bother thinking about it. However, I think anyone with the tiniest sense of integrity in them should feel ashamed of seeing their their picture on the wall or on the Internet with fake education achievements or job experiences that don't exist.

[jeffinflorida]

[kev7161]

Schools should ask for resumes of course as well as "x" amount of references. Schools should contact those references. If an individual has misrepresented himself or herself by giving false credentials and "fake" references then the school should kick him/her to the curb. Essentially, the school should observe teachers diligently for the first 2 or 3 or 4 weeks until they are satisfied the teacher knows his/her way around a classroom. Later, if the teacher starts to slack off or not doing what he/her has been hired for, then the school should be able to cut them off at mid-term, even if they have a year-long contract.

Are phony claims acceptable - - of course not! But schools have to do their part as well to try and make sure these phonies don't stick around too long. My ideas sound simplistic and many schools may be too cowardly to actually fire a teacher mid-contract. Schools should uphold their end of the deal and we've talked about THAT particular problem a boatload of times - - but "teachers" also need to do their job, regardless of the pay (it's not like they didn't know ahead of time what their salary was going to be).

[Worldly]

[harmon]

i personaly know of someone that used a forged bachelors degree to get there z class visa. apparntly they only ask for a photo copy of it and they don't bother to check even when it's applied for from canada or the US. does anyone know if this is true?

[SnoopBot]

[Worldly]

[harmon]

does anyone know if people that have forged degrees can fool china consulates in canada or the US in order to get a z class visa, this is of course after the potential teacher has already been offered the job? all I was asked for was a photocopy of my degree

[seperley]

[SnoopBot]