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Phil_K
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2041
Location: A World of my Own
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 Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:37 pm Post subject: UK General Election? |
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To my expat compatriots and anyone else who's interested, what do you make of this speculation.
I said in 1997 that if Labour came to power, I would leave the country! Well, it took me 4 years but I did it. I think my fears were justified, and 4/5 more years of Golden Brown (remember The Strangler's song?) would change irreparably Britain as I know it.
Looking forward to a heated debate!  |
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reddevil79
Joined: 19 Jul 2004
Posts: 234
Location: Neither here nor there
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| Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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Well judging by yesterday's opinion polls, looks less likely now...  |
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Gary Denness
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| Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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Can't say I was too fussed with Blair winning in 1997 - time was well and truly up for the Tories by then. I think they needed a break from power as much as the country needed a break from them.
I don't think GB is a bad PM, just a few years too late. End of 2002, beginning of 2003 would have been an ideal time for him to have taken over.
A change from Labour is needed - but to be honest I just couldn't vote Conservative with David Cameron in charge. He has all of Blair's worst bits and none of the good.
A Liberal vote a wasted vote? Maybe, just for once, not. Possibility of a hung parliament? You never know...
(Shame it couldn't be hung with real rope!) |
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TheLongWayHome
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Posts: 1016
Location: San Luis Piojosi
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| Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think it matters who you vote for, the agenda is always the same. Remember when Labour said they'd abolish the poll tax? They just changed the name to the Council Tax... I for one prefer to live under an obviously corrupt government here than under one that pretends not to be! I shall not be moved!
Get your posts in before this thread gets taken down! |
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Guy Courchesne
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9650
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Get your posts in before this thread gets taken down! |
Taken down? Why would it?
Looking at UK politics from the outside, as I do, does no one think Brown is moving far enough away from Blair's position as a Bush lapdog to hold power? |
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Gary Denness
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| Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| TheLongWayHome wrote: |
I don't think it matters who you vote for, the agenda is always the same. Remember when Labour said they'd abolish the poll tax? They just changed the name to the Council Tax... I for one prefer to live under an obviously corrupt government here than under one that pretends not to be! I shall not be moved!
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Major's Tory government abolished Poll Tax and replaced it with Council Tax. Which was pretty much what existed before the Poll Tax...
| Guy Courchesne wrote: |
| Looking at UK politics from the outside, as I do, does no one think Brown is moving far enough away from Blair's position as a Bush lapdog to hold power? |
I think so, and doing it in a reasonably diplomatic, discreet yet speedy manner. He'sboring. He might well be boring, but that, imo, is a positive attribute to have in politics. |
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Phil_K
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2041
Location: A World of my Own
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| Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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Guy Courchesne wrote:
Looking at UK politics from the outside, as I do, does no one think Brown is moving far enough away from Blair's position as a Bush lapdog to hold power?
I think so, and doing it in a reasonably diplomatic, discreet yet speedy manner. He'sboring. He might well be boring, but that, imo, is a positive attribute to have in politics. |
Given that, of the 60m people in the UK, 50m are in England, the fact that he represents the typical dour Scot, (sorry, Scots!) is enough to turn off many of the electorate. But that is just about image, which admittedly is important in modern politics. Having read Cameron's conference speech, I am confident that he is ready and able to herald a new Conservative era, which after all, is the natural party of government in the UK. I refute the claim that he is a Blair clone; Blair was an everyman, and honestly, if you look back on 10 years of his "leadership" - what were the highlights? What was his positive legacy? Difficult, eh? I think Cameron has enough of the old Thatcherite Tory, with a dose of the modern world thrown in. See his green policies, about which he said (addressing the Tory faithful) "I know that talking about green issues isn't popular (with them), but I don't care". Could you imagine Blair, or for that matter, Brown not caring about what people think, if they themselves believe? Reminds me a bit of Thatcher  |
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Guy Courchesne
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9650
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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I see a trend between the UK, the US, and Canada in this. Back in the 90's, you had Clinton, Blair, and Chretien...three like-minded neo-Liberals, presiding over the good times. Bush came about, and then 9/11 which changed it all. Chretien held fast for awhile, then handed power to his finance minister, and that ended up with a minority government now run by conservatives - by their fingernails. I look at the UK and wonder where the parallel is...follow Canada, or follow the US?
Of course, there's Australian politics that mirror all this. Interesting there too. |
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Gary Denness
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| Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Phil_K wrote: |
Given that, of the 60m people in the UK, 50m are in England, the fact that he represents the typical dour Scot, (sorry, Scots!) is enough to turn off many of the electorate. But that is just about image, which admittedly is important in modern politics. Having read Cameron's conference speech, I am confident that he is ready and able to herald a new Conservative era, which after all, is the natural party of government in the UK. I refute the claim that he is a Blair clone; Blair was an everyman, and honestly, if you look back on 10 years of his "leadership" - what were the highlights? What was his positive legacy? Difficult, eh? I think claim has enough of the old Thatcherite tory, with a dose of the modern world thrown in. See his green policies, about which he said (addressing the Tory faithful) "I know that talking about green issues isn't popular (with them), but I don't care". Could you imagine Blair, or for that matter, Brown not caring about what people think, if they themselves believe? Reminds me a bit of Thatcher |
I wouldn't argue with the importance of image, but I think it's a tragedy. Politics is more and more about personality and less and less about politics.
Blairs highlights, in my opinion - WTD, NMW, foreign policy pre 2003, Northern Ireland. Amongst others.
You can list a selection of his disasters, and I probably wouldn't disagree. I was brought up in a Conservative family and school, but really have no attachment to any party.
Having listened to Cameron, my feeling is, that when translated from Polispeak into English, he is effectively saying...
"I today propose to implement whatever it is that the media say I should implement, the opposite of everything the media says is shouldn't have been implemented, and will endeavor to run an even more effective spin campaign than Campbell's"
He comes across as so insincere - and like Blair in '97, is simply consumed with gaining power. Whatever he has to promise to get it , he'll promise....
As for Thatcher! She's always good for a heated debate! She utterly destroyed British industry, and anyone responsible for implementing Milton Friedmans economic ideaology should be shot! To then take Friedmans ideas even further, to the point Friedman refers to it as madness, is unforgiveable. There is no single person bearing greater responsibility for where the country is today than Margaret Thatcher. Tony Blair lay so much closer to Thatcherism that is generally appreciated, and allowed her policies to roll on largely unhindered. I hear people crying foul on tax - Blair never did reach the gross tax burden that Thatcher managed.
On the other hand, in '79, British industry was in the hands of socialist madmen....was there any other way to remedy the situation other than make a clean sweep of it and see where it ended up? Probably not. Thatcher followed Reagan's economic policy, and like it or not, that policy was to dominate the global economy. Could we do anything other than go with the flow? Probably not.
Thatcher was perhaps the right person at the right time, but in my opinion, 2007 UK isn't the time or place for a repeat. |
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Phil_K
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2041
Location: A World of my Own
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| Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| follow Canada, or follow the US? |
UK Conservative leaders don't follow anyone, they lead... witnes Thatcher |
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Guy Courchesne
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9650
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Phil_K wrote: |
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| follow Canada, or follow the US? |
UK Conservative leaders don't follow anyone, they lead... witnes Thatcher |
Witness Reagan...everything is connected in the Colonies, my friend. |
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Phil_K
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2041
Location: A World of my Own
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| Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Gary, you've got me going now! I love it...
| Quote: |
| Blairs highlights, in my opinion - WTD, NMW, foreign policy pre 2003, Northern Ireland. Amongst others. |
NI was largely engineered by John Major, with Blair taking the credit...
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Having listened to Cameron, my feeling is, that when translated from Polispeak into English, he is effectively saying...
"I today propose to implement whatever it is that the media say I should implement, the opposite of everything the media says is shouldn't have been implemented, and will endeavor to run an even more effective spin campaign than Campbell's" |
The serious media generally reflects the wishes of the people, so there is nothing wrong with "listening to the people", something most politicians promise but rarely do. In general though, that is unfair. I think Cameron is like Blair, but only in the sense that he realises that the Party needs change, and of course like Blair that is partly personal ambition, but I think Cameron is a conviction politician, not afraid to be unpopular at times...unlike Blair.
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| As for Thatcher! She's always good for a heated debate! She utterly destroyed British industry... |
Exactly the opposite, her policies renewed the enterprise spirit
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| There is no single person bearing greater responsibility for where the country is today than Margaret Thatcher |
Correct!!! For the good!
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| Thatcher followed Reagan's economic policy, and like it or not, that policy was to dominate the global economy. Could we do anything other than go with the flow? Probably not. |
Exactly the opposite. Thatcher's influence stretched beyond the shores of the UK...again for the good.
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| Thatcher was perhaps the right person at the right time, but in my opinion, 2007 UK isn't the time or place for a repeat. |
There is always a time and a place for a great leader. I can't think of another political leader than had a plan, implemented that plan and left a country in infinitely better shape than he/she found it. If a new leader can learn at least some of these lessons, which I believe Cameron has, then great. |
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Guy Courchesne
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9650
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Exactly the opposite. Thatcher's influence stretched beyond the shores of the UK...again for the good. |
That's going to need an example... |
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Phil_K
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2041
Location: A World of my Own
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| Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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A specific example, perhaps not, but I just feel that as one of the major economic nations of the world, what happened in the UK in the '80s was reflected among other economies. Hard to put your finger on exactly, but there all the same.
There! that's a good politicians answer! |
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Guy Courchesne
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9650
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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| There! that's a good politicians answer! |
Bob Dole never did Bob Dole more proud! 
I'm going to go back on my US/UK/Canada (and probably Australia) idea from earlier in that trends develop in those countries. Reagan/Thatcher/Mulroney comes to mind...as to who started the model...we should blame the French. |
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