Job Discussion Forums

cafebleu · Joined: 10 Feb 2003 Posts: 404

As the Spice Girls put it so simply yet effectively `I said who oo oo do you think you are?` I am referring to an increasing trend in the part of Japan where I live for schools or individuals to advertise offering paltry hours and payment. I live in Kyushu and I would like to know the opinion of other Kyushu dwellers, but I am mostly looking for opinions from English teachers who live in Honshu and Hokkaido.

Cases in point - a recent advertisement asking for a teacher to teach a company class. 1 hour per week. Yeah, right, that is just what we all need - to go and teach a class for one hour a week. A massive four hours a month. It`s really going to help us live and stay here. I bet the payment would not be good, either. Probably 3,000 to 3,500 yen.

Another case - a teacher wanted from 12pm to 9pm. The payment - 10,000 yen total. Do the sums.

Re private study - in Fukuoka the demand of Japanese students for English teachers is high. Sounds good? It isn`t. Most of them want free lessons or are offering 1,000 to 2,000 per class. DON`T fall for the iwake of `I don`t have money`. Most of these people live with mumsy and daddy, pay no money to their parents to cover expenses, are earning salaries that are much better than ours and live as we did at teenagers at home in their twenties, thirties and even forties.

Who do these people think they are? Is it just Fukuoka/Kyushu? If these organisations and individuals want English teaching on the cheap or for free then why the hell don`t they advertise `Working Holiday Visa people wanted`?

Don`t teach them - it only encourages them. It encourages the schools/companies to pay you paltry sums of money that nobody earns in Japan unless they are doing a really bad job and it encourages the clinging Japanese, spoilt live-at-homes to use you the way they are using their parents. Who do they think they are to use us? Don`t let them!

Brooks · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 1369 Location: Sagamihara

yep.
in Honshu it can be like that.
I remember people that wanted to do language exchanges but couldn`t teach
me Japanese. They got a better deal since at least I can teach my native language.
A lot of people want to learn English but don`t want to pay (or can`t afford to).

I am really getting discouraged with the employment situation in Japan. It seems to me that Tokyo has the jobs and money but other parts of Japan, like Osaka, are really hurting.

I think there are going to be more part-time jobs in the future.
I think teachers can still make money, but teachers will spend more time riding on JR, going from job to job.

Celeste · Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 3:58 am Post subject:

Whenever I am asked to volunteer my English teaching services (or asked if I know anyone who wants to do volunteer teaching) I remind the person asking that as EFL is the ONLY work that is available to many foreigners in Japan, that I cannot offer to do it for free, and that other teachers would be angry with me if I used the unethical business practice of UNDERCUTTING the going rate. Most people accept this. I also teach music(voice coaching) to a few private students, but nobody is asking me to "volunteer" those services - I wonder why?

Spike · Joined: 12 Dec 2003 Posts: 9 Location: Fukuoka, Japan

Here in Fukuoka things are getting dismal. I know of half a dozen or so local universities that will either be eliminating or paring down their foreign English teachers next year. Add to that 3 high schools doing the same. Not a good time to be job hunting. And the greying of Japan will mean even fewer students in the future...

Wolf · Joined: 10 May 2003 Posts: 1245 Location: Middle Earth

Re: Language exhanges.

My experience is limited, but with good reason. If you are just looking to make friends, this might be a good way. If you are already happy with your own Japanese ability, then this might be a way to maintain it.

If you want to learn the language, remember that your partner will be about as effective as an Eikaiwa teacher on the first day of the job, unless they happen to be a foreign language teacher by profession.

I've seen and experienced many spectacular failures of language exchanges as a "JSL" tool. You could very well be asking for an unnecessary headache.

One disturbing trend I've noticed: more and more (and more and more) of the jobs I see advertised are part time. It seems especially pronounced in the Kanto/Tokyo region, but that could be my faulty perception, or my limited access to ads (internet only right now.) Part time jobs are certainly a nice way to suppliamnet an income, but I'd prefer something a bit more visa-sponsorish, and branch out from there. Some teachers adore the chaos of trying to make a living off of stringing a bunch of part time jobs together, but I prefer the relative safety of a full time contracted postition that will be enough to pay all my bills. Then I need only work more if I want to, not because I need to. I want(ed) more out of life than just working, and I'm too lazy to want to stitch together a bunch of mismatched jobs, like a linguistic Dr. Frankenstein, in order to live over a long period of time.

So I'm a bit disturbed over jobs offered of the baby-sitterish level of reliability and hours/pay.

Japan's stay-at-home thirtysomethings I think are a big drag on the society in a lot of ways. One is, yes, they'll try to pay you like you're a convienience store clerk for your services. Even though, as others have pointed out, their gross salry isn't that far off a starting EFL teacher's, and their disposable income borders on the surreal.

Also, it is a factor in other problems, such as the (too?) low birthrate, etc.

Laura C · Joined: 14 Oct 2003 Posts: 211 Location: Saitama

Celeste -- That's one of the most tactful replies to anything I've ever heard! I'm remembering that... Very Happy

L

einsenundnullen · Joined: 07 Jul 2003 Posts: 76

The bottom line here is what Celeste and Cafebleu have already said:
refuse the offers. Don't do stuff for free, don't apply for the 4 hour
a month jobs, or the less-than-250000 a month jobs. Of course there has
to be widespread agreement and cooperation amongst foreigners for this
to work, but maybe at least if companies are only getting totally
incompetent applicants, they'll get the drift.

Complicated situation isn't it? I'll be watching this thread.

Chris

Smooth Operator · Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Posts: 140 Location: Japan

"I know of half a dozen or so local universities that will either be eliminating or paring down their foreign English teachers next year. "

Really? Which ones Spike?

Thanks...

Spike · Joined: 12 Dec 2003 Posts: 9 Location: Fukuoka, Japan

In Fukuoka, unis downsizing/eliminating include Fukdai, Kyushu U., KSU, KIT, Nakamura, Daiichi Keizai, Koran. Need a job try Seinan - I heard last month they were looking for a bunch of teachers, maybe they still have an opening...

guest of Japan · Joined: 28 Feb 2003 Posts: 1601 Location: Japan

Yes, I too find it all to be very disturbing.

Right now I'm working through a pretty reputable company (it's the school thats killing me). I had a meeting with my boss the other day. During the meeting I tried to see if I could get the company to pay for me to take a diploma course. Of course the answer was no. The reasoning was that the company didn't really feel that the course was a necessity. They said that athough it may be wonderful for me to have it, they couldn't take the risk of them paying for it and then me quitting. They said that if the course was really important for the company they would just hire teachers with it from the beginning and pay them more, but that since it isn't they don't. He said that in the past a japanese company would probably make the investment in the employee, but now the modern liquid labor market precludes such practices.

My point is that there seems to be a chicken and egg debate going on in the labor market. Companies are distrustful of their labor. They are afraid to place too much emphasis on the value of the worker for fear that the worker will leave. For this reason they are trying to get their labor through outsourcing or part-time positions. They are looking to fill immediate voids with no prospects for the future. Conversely, labor is distrustful of the companies. They no longer see long term stability in working for one company. They are quick to leave for a better offer, because they sense that the here and now is the most rational way to look at a career. The two sides are feeding each others negativity. The sad thing is that both sides are doing what is best for themselves.

Unfortunately, for us folks in the labor catagory, the employers have the upper hand. This is because the potential labor pool keeps growing in the English teaching industry. As individuals we are easily replaced. There will be people to take those part-time jobs. Those people will probably not be very good at their jobs. The companies probably won't think "We should have hired people with better experience and paid them more." They will think of the foreigners as a necessary evil and try to limit the negative impact of the really bad ones. They may want people with more experience and qualifications, but I'm pretty sure they will pay the same salary as before, because there are so many of us to choose from.

cafebleu · Joined: 10 Feb 2003 Posts: 404

Thanks for all the feedback. Keep it coming!

Even organisations that are noted for decent treatment of teachers don`t stop to think that their employment practices are not suitable for teachers who really want to live and work here - in other words, who have a commitment to Japan and are not just here for quick money or a working holiday.

One of my friends has a partner who applied to an organisation for part time teaching work. He was given a contract and treated decently; however, he was kept waiting for work as none was available at that time. Of course he looked elsewhere and lined up other work as there is no point in having a contract without being given any hours!

A few months later he was contacted and asked to to do some work but it was too late by then. He had already committed himself to other places and knew at least they would give him regular hours per week. He felt frustrated because he would have liked to work for the original company as the pay and hours would have been better - had they actually given him some teaching work when he signed the contract.

Such organisations are not deliberately trying to mess teachers around but they need to understand that if they are going to see teachers as convenient means to contract out teaching jobs to schools and colleges that ask for English teaching, they have to give some guaranteed teaching hours. However, many organisations that do this expect English teachers to hang around and wait for their phonecall down the track - not acceptable. Japan is an expensive place to live and teachers have to pay rent etc. They also need to be able to prove they can support themselves in Japan.

It amazes me that those facts really don`t seem to register with employers such as organisations who recruit part time teachers with the promise of work then can`t deliver straight away.

VanKen · Joined: 29 Oct 2003 Posts: 139 Location: Calgary, AB Canada

As someone who doesn't teach in Japan yet but who reads these posts regularly, I find it interesting to read this thread.

What I am hearing here is that Japan seems to be going down the Korean path -- not respecting the professional nature of the English teaching profession by offering lower wages and lower quality working conditions, while jetisoning the teachers who don't work out, and replacing them with other low-paid foreign staff who are willing to take their place. It's a slippery slope. This just drives down the conditions further, and attracts lower-qualified labour. (Sorry, no offense to anyone here.)

However, this doesn't seem to be in sync with what the Japanese gov't desires at all. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Japanese gov't require a university degree to get a work visa, and set a minimum FT salary (�250,000) so that qualified, fulltime teachers will be attracted to Japan and be able to live fairly well? How do the eikaiwas get away with offering less than that?

Of course, these employers might be looking for PT teachers who aleady have a visa and a job, and so don't have to offer them the same deal, but that's another issue that can be easily remedied with a NO THANKS.

Don't work for less than fair wages and working conditions or soon there will be no more FT English teachers in Japan. Sad

Gordon · Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 5309 Location: Japan

Dr.J · Joined: 09 May 2003 Posts: 304 Location: usually Japan

Hi, I'm here in Kyushu; generally, employers will go as low as they can but what else is new. One thing, if the quality of teaching is bad, Japanese people will not notice. There is a kind of blind respect for teachers, and combined with a general ignorance of good English, there is no hope of customers waking up and realising they are getting bad teachers.

ruggedtoast · Joined: 04 May 2003 Posts: 81 Location: tokyo

The end of this year has been a bit slow in the kanto region due to the cut in the government subs from 80 to 40pc.

The main beneficiaries of the 80pc subs were the big schools like NOVA offering flexible free time lessons (if you miss too many scheduled classes you lose your subsidy).

They sucked up many of the serious learners and the lions share of the dabblers - leaving smaller schools gasping for air and only able to offer dismal part time jobs.

Expect things to begin turning around in the new year.

Also remember that the jobs you see advertised are a smaller percentage of the ones that are available if you contact employers directly;those rotten P/T jobs are advertised week after week precisely because they cant find anyone reliable to fill them.

As for language exchanges, they are what you make of them, my exchange girl cant "teach" as such but I can reinforce my own study with her and get some insights into Japan I wouldnt otherwise have.

Dont sweat theres still plenty of work out there for everyone.