Job Discussion Forums

[justin032]

And I'm not talking about working in Western Europe as an American, so calm down.

I'm thinking about going down to South America soon to start my EFL career. I'm quite serious about it, I intend to get certified and a do a Masters eventually and all that jazz. Basically, before going on to somewhere in Asia or the Middle East to get really serious, I would like to get my feet wet in South America, and particularly Argentina for a year or so. Yes, I know the pay and conditions for teachers are quite poor there, I've read all about it. I also understand it is nearly impossible to get a legit working visa there. None of this bothers me personally, but I am wondering what effect this might have on my applying to future positions at the MA or higher level. I don't intend to work under the table for 10 years or anything, but I would like to spend a good 6 months to a year working there. Will I be able to confidently refer to this experience without worrying about explaining away the ethics of working illegally?

[spiral78]

It's a tough question to answer...

I personally think it would really depend on the individual situation. You could conceivably run across some stickler later on who will consider your application in a bad light due to an illegal stint -

The kicker is that many people in our field are AWARE of where/who can legally work - this isn't really a problem if you're going back 'home' to work in some other field after your year abroad, because most people aren't that well-educated about international law.

However, I think that since you're talking short-term that you shouldn't probably suffer long term consequences in most hiring situations...I think it's a risk, but probably not so high. And, as you gain more time/experience you can eventually drop that part from your CV if you find it's problematic.

[coffeedrinker]

I mainly agree with the above post.

I do recall hearing that (as an example) to get a working holiday visa in Australia - or whatever it is that US citizens get to work there for five months - they require a police certificate from any country in which you've lived longer than x months (nine or ten?) in the last several years.

Obviously you are not interested in a whv for Australia - this is just an example.

My point is - it might be worth investigating if there is any similar requirement for a country you would like to work in, though. This whv is probably an extreme case, but in my mind that would be the type of situation where it could come back to haunt you - probably not in your own country.

[spiral78]

Actually, now that you mention the police record issue, I can add that both my spouse and I have actually had to do this on multiple occasions - for the Czech Republic, Netherlands, and Canada, in fact.

This adds another point to the notion that working under the table somewhere really only works for those who just HAVE to have a year or so and plan to go back 'home' later - and probably to work in another field.

[justin032]

Thanks for the thoughtful repsones. The Argentina situation is really aggravating, seeing how there seems to be a demand and yet they make it impossible to fill that demand legally. I wonder if it would still be possible to get some sort of similar police report there as long as I kept renewing my tourist visa on time....they seem so casual about everything else.

[guty]

By the time you have "eventually got the MA and all that jazz" what you did for 6 months 5+ years ago wont influence much at all.
Of course, you could always pretend that you had been in prison.

[spiral78]

I wonder if one avenue might be to call 6 months in Argentina an extended holiday, officially - in which case you probably wouldn't ever need a police record from there in future, no matter where you went. You'd have to keep your visa up-to-date, as you mentioned...

[MELEE]

Okay the police record thing is an issue, but if you are legally IN the country like, you didn't overstay your tourist visa, but were doing activities not permitted to a tourist. But you were legally there, why could you not get a clean record from the Argentine police, as long as they never picked you up for working illegally?


That aside, let's say it's 8 years from now. You have experience, you have an MA and you apply for a job with me (In Mexico--yes, serious TEFL happens here too). I see six months or a year in Argentina at X school on your resume, I might contact them for a reference but neither you nor they have any reason to disclose your migratory status to me. I know it's hard to get a visa in Argentina, Brazil, etc. but what I care about is your experience, what kind of teacher you are and what you can bring to our department--we'll make sure you're legal in Mexico, but what went on in other countries--we only care about what went on in the classrooms in those countries.

[spiral78]

I expect the police record thing is more of an issue when/if you need to apply for permanent residency or other official status in a foreign country. I think it's much more likely to be immigration offices that are interested in such information than any potential employer, other than a school operated by some governmental body, such as NATO.

[justin032]

Thanks for putting my mind at ease everyone.

@MELEE, Sorry didn't mean to imply there weren't serious places to do TEFL in LA...but what if I applied to your school directly after my stint in Argentina and that was my only work experience. I assume the concerns would be the same, not my legal status but simply having a couple good references?

[denise]

You mentioned getting an MA and then moving on to Asia or the Middle East. I have an MA, have worked in Asia, and am currently working in the Middle East, and nobody--the schools that I worked for or even the other schools that I interviewed with--ever asked about my legal status in the other places that I lived in (Czech Republic and Peru--it's not too uncommon to work illegally in those places...) They may have contacted the schools that I worked for to get references, though. If you get a job in Argentina and have to work under the table, do a visa run across the border every few months, etc., those illegal conditions still don't change the fact that you had a job there and have a school/director for future employers to contact.

Oh, and the MA programs that I applied to also never asked about my legal status when I was teaching in the CR.

Then again, I've never done under the table work, so maybe it's just something that I don't understand...

d

[rusmeister]

Wait a minute... Do you guys mean that big dark-brown sky over our heads...?

(I wondered what those four huge trees were...)

[william wallace]

nil

[Julieanne]

Yes I think so. Better to make your own company if you want to work for a better pay.

[naturegirl321]

It shouldn't be a problem. Many teachers do work illegally. Also, about references, get them BEFORE you leave your job. Then you just copy it and send it with your CV or take the original to the interview.