Job Discussion Forums

Teatime of Soul · Joined: 12 Apr 2007 Posts: 905

The beauty of ESL is the diversity of opportunities available.

There are jobs for the not too serious with not too serious pay.

And there are jobs with huge, overflowing wheelbarrows of bullion dragged to the serious teachers rented palaces by paymasters who prostrate themselves before their seriously blinding coronas.

Everybody can be fully satisfied and not even a little bit disgruntled, or snarky, or bitter.

It's a beautiful thing.

vikuk · Joined: 23 May 2007 Posts: 1842

Lorean · Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 476 Location: Beijing

The following is only my humble opinion.

Information praising schools should be ignored.

There are few selfless reasons to invest the time to let the world know a school is good. If you knew of a good school you would keep this information to yourself, or to your friends.

On the other hand, the selfish reasons are many. You either have a stake in or are a representative of a school.

Admittedly, there is the occasional humanitarian, but these are few.

Therefore, information praising schools is unreliable, and should be ignored.

A'Moo · Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:28 pm Post subject:

I agree with that sentiment somewhat, however, I enjoy seeing the occasional positive review in this sea of negativity. The blinders will come off eventually though...Most of us here are enjoying ourselves for one reason or another, or we wouldnt stay...

kepotts · Joined: 17 Apr 2007 Posts: 29 Location: Ganzhou, Jiangxi

I hate how these posts turn into a "battlefield" of egos! I was just trying to spread the word about how I am enjoying the college where I work. I appreciate everyone's suggestions about credibility, etc. You are right, I do not post things very often, so I understand the suspicion. Thank you also for the idea of "getting past the 90-day honeymoon period". A few things about why I am enjoying where I work;

1. While I was searching for a job (before coming to China) my correspondance with the school, mainly emails, were ALWAYS answered the next day, all questions answered. When I asked for a reference I was promptly given one; an American teacher who has been in China for 8+ years and at this college for 2 years. He was very helpful.

2. When I decdied upon this school, all of the Visa paperwork was sent to me in the States in more than enough time to get everything processed. Also, when I arrived here in Ganzhou, the school took care of residency permit and foreign expert book just as they had promissed.
3. The school was in the process of finishing the brand-new apartments for foreign teachers when I arrived so they put me up in a Western style hotel for the 1st two nights I was here, all meals taken care of also. The new apartments are spectacular also, very modern and right on campus, very close to all of my classes.

4. As for teaching, everything has been very straighforward so far. I am only required to teach my scheduled classes, no office hours or extra duties. Of course teachers are encouraged to participate in other school related activities, but nothing is required. All of my classrooms are well-equiped with electronics and if I need to reschedule a class due to a conflict of schedule, the school has been accomodating. The Dean's of the Foreign Language College have been very helpful and have made themselves available by cell phone if I need anything.

5. We (the foreign teachers) have someone whose job is to assist us with anything we might need in terms of "living conditions". He has been very helpful with numerous things; mailing letters, buying plane tickets, fixing computers, etc.

It is true that the city of Ganzhou is small and somewhat limited in things to do and Western goods to buy, but it is the "Chinese Experience" I was looking for. I hope everything continues to go well for me and believe me, if it does NOT, I will write about it!

SnoopBot · Joined: 21 Jun 2007 Posts: 740 Location: USA

shenyanggerry · Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 619 Location: Canada

Vikuk, you said:

SnoopBot · Joined: 21 Jun 2007 Posts: 740 Location: USA

7969 · Joined: 26 Mar 2003 Posts: 5782 Location: Coastal Guangdong

vikuk · Joined: 23 May 2007 Posts: 1842

latefordinner · Joined: 19 Aug 2003 Posts: 973

One of my colleagues is a retired teacher, she negotiated the same salary as everyone else. (Not enough, IMHO) She ain't stupid. I usually tell people, "I don't really care about the money..." and as their eyes light up, "... but my wife and daughter do". Seeing that I can play too, then they get real.
7969, I was thinking the same thing. Good on yer. I wonder if there's some kind of 12 step program

Silent Shadow · Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:15 am Post subject: Gannan

I worked for a year at Gannan Normal University, and overall I enjoyed my year there. It wasn't all roses at first though.

The chief FAO a lady in her mid-forties drove a hard bargain when it came to negotiating the contract. Of course there's nothing wrong with that, it's called business, and I practice that philosophy too. However I had a bit of a set-to with her during those negotiations. I arrived around the 12th September, the day that I had agreed to come, and I believe the term had already started by then. First of all she promised to pay me a half-salary of 2500 for the first month of September as I obviously would only be teaching for about the last two weeks of the month. I agreed. Fair enough. However at the next meeting she changed her mind, now saying she was only going to pay me 1600 yuan instead. None of this was in the contract by the way. I objected to this quite firmly. I shouted a couple of times and this probably caused her to lose face in front of her young assistant who was just fresh out of college. I think this was what lead to further problems I had with her during those initial negotiations. The reason she LATER gave for not wanting to pay the initially agreed upon amount is because I started at a later date than she initially asked me too. This was correct, she asked, but did not insist, that I start on the 15th, but after reasoning with her that I wanted to get the contract sorted out, first, and that I needed more time to prepare my syllabus, she agreed to a start on the 18th. I partly understood her point, but didn't think that, that was a valid reason for her to reduce the agreed upon salary. She eventually paid me 2500, though. But there was more.

The original advert had stated that 5000 RMB a month would be paid for the teaching of 16-20 classes a month, but during the negotiations she said that 5000 would only be paid if twenty classes were taught a month, and a disproportionate amount would be paid if less classes were taught.
Again I objected to this, mentioned the advert, and again she capitulated. But, there was more...

During the initial meeting she had promised to pay for two out of three of my utility fees, but a week later before the contract was signed she went back on this too, refusing to pay for them after all. I again objected and because of my funds being a bit low at the time, this time I capitulated.

After signing the contract though, there were no real problems (relief). THe students who generally were not well off, were for the most part eager, sincere and keen to study. The dean and his assistant were both very good. They organized meetings for the foreign teachers before each semester and gave us general guide-lines. They were also always on hand to assist us during the semester. One fault I found, though, is that they were very tight when it came to getting stuff photocopied for class.

The monthly salary for the most part was paid on time and there was no problem when it came to receiving the end of year payments for airfare etc. The accommodation was a year or two old, comfortable and of adequate size. I believe there are new apartments on campus now though.

This post is long-winded enough so I'd better end here. I hope some of you are still awake, but I put in so much detail in because I wanted to help people to understand what happened without demonizing the FAO. It may have just been a clash of egos with her being no more than a tough negotiator. I had no more difficulties with her for the rest of the year.

If anybody would like to know anything more about the school, feel free to ask.

shenyanggerry · Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 619 Location: Canada

Vikuk, Just for the record, I'm retired, but not a retired teacher. I spent a year at university doing my TESL Certificate. I understand your concern with those undermining current pay rates, I don't. In fact at my previous position, I was the one that led the way to obtaining a higher salary for all.

I spent a number of years with a very competent labour union - both as a member and as management dealing with them. I can read a contract. I have not been 'violated' in China, mostly because my employers were honourable but also because I didn't let myself be taken advantage of.

I provide competent English language training, they provide the agreed money and services. This is as it should be. We're both happy.

vikuk · Joined: 23 May 2007 Posts: 1842

good on you old chap - and all the other posters who negotiate the best deals with regard to the principle of standing-up for good basic working conditions for all China FT's.
Remember - like it or not - we're all, one way or the other, in this business because of the money - regardless of how much of it we've got stashed away back home (do many FT's believe their jobs would still exist if their teaching didn't generate a profit).
Ignoring this fact invites exploitation and an employer mindset that may not benefit future FT employment trends!!!!!!