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notamiss
Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 908
Location: El 5o pino del la CDMX
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 Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 12:12 am Post subject: |
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| Prof.Gringo wrote: |
| Why didn't they push to "legalize" the street vendors? Have them pay taxes, and have a license to sell? Just a thought. |
My understanding is they do already have to pay "licenses" and "taxes" for the right to do business on their patch of sidewalk or curb, just that the "officials" they have to pay are also part of the underground economy, all the way to up to the top level.
Sometimes the distinction between the official and the unofficial system of licenses and taxes is not clear-cut. I don't mean all in one direction, either; official tax and licensing offices sometimes also collect unofficial "taxes" and "fees".
Last edited by notamiss on Sat Oct 20, 2007 2:01 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Guy Courchesne
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9650
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 1:57 am Post subject: |
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I only ever stumble upon the Lebanese place by accident. I want to say it's on Venustiano Carranza street, but I'm never sure.
Better directions: get off a metro Pino Saurez, take a left at the spot where the hookers stop working, go past three underwear vendors, turn right at the 4th esquite guy, and it should be four doors in, with a an alarm clock vendor outside with a wooden leg. |
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GueroPaz
Joined: 07 Sep 2007
Posts: 216
Location: Thailand or Mexico
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:03 am Post subject: |
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| Guy Courchesne wrote: |
| Better directions: get off a metro Pino Saurez, take a left at the spot where the hookers stop working, go past three underwear vendors, turn right at the 4th esquite guy, and it should be four doors in, with a an alarm clock vendor outside with a wooden leg. |
Directions in a developing country, there's a classic which is probably common. It matches the Nicaraguan girl who said to turn left right after the place where the dog died.
Ambulantes came by my beach house at the fringe of a little village beyond where God lost his shoes. I bought some pine furniture, right off the handcart. Nobody in Mexico can ever be without a chicles vendedor. |
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Phil_K
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2041
Location: A World of my Own
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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Friends, I like all of you but....I have to vent!!!
First of all, comparing the modern vendors with the tradition of Mexico is ridiculous. Sure, people selling crafts which they have made, or selling chiles or whatever has a certain charm, and is part of the pre-hispanic heritage, but the vast majority are not doing that. Its just a case of rigging up a makeshift table or pile of boxes and selling whatever they can steal or forge.
Arguing whether they are ambulantes or not is just pedantic, they are all the same crooks, and in most cases too damn lazy to get of their backsides to amble. As for the charm that MELEE talks about, I have found that most are anything BUT charming. Charming people treat their customers with respect and have pride in their environment.
I heard some comments that weekend - "What are we going to do now?"
Do what the rest of us do - get out there and find some honest employment. Do you expect the government to do everything for you? If you wasted your youth not learning anything useful that makes you employable then sorry, my heart bleeds! Thats what the rest of us had to do. |
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MO39
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 1970
Location: El ombligo de la Rep�blica Mexicana
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| In this debate about street vendors in downtown Mexico City, I feel as though I'm between a rock and a hard place - my opinion falls somewhere between that of Phil_K and the rest of you. I have nothing against people trying to earn a living from selling whatever (and that's usually what it is, rather than charming crafts or useful ladders). It's just that their needs have to be balanced against the goal of making the Centro Hist�rico a pleasant place to walk and visit and shop in. |
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Phil_K
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2041
Location: A World of my Own
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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I haven't finished yet! 
The worst thing is seeing those fat women stuffed into jogging suits (as if they ever jog!) stuffing their faces with tacos, and looking as if they were queens of all they survey.
Don't waste your sympathy! |
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MO39
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 1970
Location: El ombligo de la Rep�blica Mexicana
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Phil_K wrote: |
I haven't finished yet!
The worst thing is seeing those fat women stuffed into jogging suits (as if they ever jog!) stuffing their faces with tacos, and looking as if they were queens of all they survey.
Don't waste your sympathy! |
I know I shouldn't ask because it will just give you a chance to vent some more on all things awful in Mexico City, but what do these "gorditas" (perhaps wolfing down the same) have to do with vendors in the Centro Hist�rico? |
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Guy Courchesne
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9650
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Do what the rest of us do - get out there and find some honest employment. Do you expect the government to do everything for you? If you wasted your youth not learning anything useful that makes you employable then sorry, my heart bleeds! Thats what the rest of us had to do. |
I think you're defeating your own argument here. Lacking the expectation that government will do something, people take to the streets to sell, because a) there's not a lot of employment out there and, b) what is out there pays ridiculously low. One will earn a lot more by selling items in the street than sweeping floors.
| Quote: |
| First of all, comparing the modern vendors with the tradition of Mexico is ridiculous. Sure, people selling crafts which they have made, or selling chiles or whatever has a certain charm, and is part of the pre-hispanic heritage, but the vast majority are not doing that. Its just a case of rigging up a makeshift table or pile of boxes and selling whatever they can steal or forge. |
I guess that depends on how you look at it. I meant the mere culture of the street vendor and not what they are selling. Now it's pirate DVDs...but 400 years ago, it was the same. You sell what is salable, be it fruit, the emperor's used loincloth, or your own body.
| Quote: |
| It's just that their needs have to be balanced against the goal of making the Centro Hist�rico a pleasant place to walk and visit and shop in. |
In essence, I could agree because I already see it as a pleasant place to walk and shop. I think the best thing this government could do would be to ban vehicle traffic in much of the centro. Open it up to more people walking, and even more vendors. The SUV crowd can choke up the Periferico on their busy way to Costco and leave the most historic parts of the city to the people to whom it belongs....the pochteca or their modern equivalent. |
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MO39
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 1970
Location: El ombligo de la Rep�blica Mexicana
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Guy Courchesne"]
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| Quote: |
| It's just that their needs have to be balanced against the goal of making the Centro Hist�rico a pleasant place to walk and visit and shop in. |
In essence, I could agree because I already see it as a pleasant place to walk and shop. I think the best thing this government could do would be to ban vehicle traffic in much of the centro. Open it up to more people walking, and even more vendors. The SUV crowd can choke up the Periferico on their busy way to Costco and leave the most historic parts of the city to the people to whom it belongs....the pochteca or their modern equivalent. |
I completely agree with my underlined portion of your comments, Guy! Get rid of the cars in the downtown area and turn it into a pedestrian mall. |
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Phil_K
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2041
Location: A World of my Own
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| MO39 wrote: |
| Phil_K wrote: |
I haven't finished yet!
The worst thing is seeing those fat women stuffed into jogging suits (as if they ever jog!) stuffing their faces with tacos, and looking as if they were queens of all they survey.
Don't waste your sympathy! |
I know I shouldn't ask because it will just give you a chance to vent some more on all things awful in Mexico City, but what do these "gorditas" (perhaps wolfing down the same) have to do with vendors in the Centro Hist�rico? |
�cos they are the ones who look so self-satisfied while manning said eyesores.
| Quote: |
| I think you're defeating your own argument here. Lacking the expectation that government will do something, people take to the streets to sell, because a) there's not a lot of employment out there and, b) what is out there pays ridiculously low. One will earn a lot more by selling items in the street than sweeping floors. |
That doesn't give an excuse to do something illegal and anti-social. There is always employment for those who are prepared to approach it with the right attitude, not just take the easy option. A little humility is required, something which these people lack in spade-loads. |
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Guy Courchesne
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9650
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| That's a serious value judgment and one I think a lot of Mexicans would have trouble swallowing coming from a foreigner and with 12 million countrymen on 'the other side' working. You and I might see it as the easy way out, but I think real life for many people here is much more complicated. |
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Samantha
Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 2038
Location: Mexican Riviera
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, life IS much more complicated. It sounds as if the "live and let live" attitude of this culture, one which we so enjoyed when first moved here, is now lost on a few. That's a shame.
Anyway, I figure Phil is bored and trying to get a reaction here more than anything. Otherwise why would someone from a country where people eat greasy gross "bangers" and vegetables with the hell boiled out of them (not a salad in sight) be criticizing the working stiffs here for eating and enjoying tacos when they are hungry. Sadly, we all can't look as "elegant" as Britney Spears while eating tacos.  http://eatingcelebrities.blogspot.com/2007/10/britney-spears-candid-pictures-eating.html
Speaking of self-satisfied looks....here's one from across the pond....geez Phil....�'ll take the jogging suit and tacos any day over this happy little get-up.
This reminded me of the day I was walking between schools to another class, and grabbed a bite (fruit in a cup), eating while I walked. A fellow I know casually (just happened to be a Brit from Canada) said to me "Oh you are just like the Mexicans" in sort of an accusatory tone. I inquired "what do you mean"? "Mexicans are always eating in the streets while they are walking around". He's lucky I had my hands full of food and school books! What stupid comments come out of people who think their way is far superior to the local way. I'm thinking of writing a Stupid Comment book.  I know where to go for extra material. |
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Phil_K
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2041
Location: A World of my Own
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Guy Courchesne wrote: |
| That's a serious value judgment and one I think a lot of Mexicans would have trouble swallowing coming from a foreigner and with 12 million countrymen on 'the other side' working. You and I might see it as the easy way out, but I think real life for many people here is much more complicated. |
...and one I stand by. I really don't care whether or not they have trouble swallowing what is the truth (from my POV). Nothing I say is going to change a culture anyway, and even as a foreigner, but also as a taxpayer (unlike them) I think I have the right to say it. If you're looking for a wishy-washy, liberal, politically correct POV, you're looking at the wrong person.
As for Samantha, I didn't really want to dignify her comments with an answer but I can't resist it. Samantha, I am no fan of the British, and yes many are pretentious idiots and overcook their vegetables. At the same time I am not the sort of person who goes around saying, oooh, look at me, look how "integrated" I am. Mexico can teach me some things and I could teach Mexico a few things (if they were interested!). |
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Samantha
Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 2038
Location: Mexican Riviera
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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Phil wrote:
| Quote: |
| At the same time I am not the sort of person who goes around saying, oooh, look at me, look how "integrated" I am. Mexico can teach me some things and I could teach Mexico a few things (if they were interested!). |
Oh ZING! As a matter of fact Mexico teaches me things every day, and I am happy for that. I didn't realize how flexible my patience and understanding could be in dealing with day-to-day things. (You know, the 'ni modo' factor). Being integrated should be the goal to live successfully in a foreign country. While doing so, I can't think of much I want to teach Mexicans except English.
Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed or what? You seem rather cranky today and couldn't even see the light-heartedness in my post. Oh well. I loved your comment about taxes, by the way. |
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MixtecaMike
Joined: 19 Nov 2003
Posts: 643
Location: Guatebad
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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Hello Meelee and Guy
Does Tepito still exist? Not that I plan to be back there for a few years yet, but it would be nice to know ones former home hasn't changed too much.
Cheers (from Incheon Airport) |
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