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englishgibson
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4345
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 Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 3:16 am Post subject: |
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| clark.w.griswald wrote: |
| OGFT wrote: |
| Instead of being a proponent of anything limiting discussion, you should encourage debate and the free exchange of information. |
You can't be very familiar with my posts here considering that you suggest I try to limit discussion!
I am all for discussion but for it to be valuable discussion... |
the knowledge of clark.w.griswald about EF and EF DoSs that has no limits and a lot of value
the very familiar
list of schools in taiwan
and list of schools in china
peace to no limits on discussions of all kinds
and
cheers and beers to the ones that avoid EF at all costs  |
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latefordinner
Joined: 19 Aug 2003
Posts: 973
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| Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 3:19 am Post subject: |
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| Call it EF-roulette. Maybe you'll get the empty chamber, maybe the loaded one. What are the odds, one in six? Two in six? Who wouldn't want to play? |
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englishgibson
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4345
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| Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 3:32 am Post subject: |
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yeah
maybe, the list of schools in taiwan and the list of schools in china could tell you the odds better 
cheers and beers to the russian/swedish EF-roulette  |
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DIPTESOL
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 42
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| Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:47 am Post subject: |
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They've now offered 16,000 rising to 18,000 after probation.
Any good? |
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SnoopBot
Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 740
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| eslstudies wrote: |
Anyone, let alone someone with a decent qualification, who accepts that has a psychological disorder.
I was getting 100 an hour, with all the bennies, at a Shanghai uni. 6 years ago!
The current offer from a school in Jiangsu is nearly double that. I can't believe what is being presented and, more amazingly, what people are accepting.
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Some of the Beijing jobs are now 60-120 RMB an hour, the ads claim "depends on experience and qualifications."
Of course this means regardless of qualifications or experience you will be paid towards the low side.
Someone is taking these positions because they are still filling them up and others are jumping on the bandwagon at lowering wages to this bargain basement rate.
BTW: Thailand has just passed some type of very interesting teaching law, to get a licenses (all teachers required to have in 3-years) they must go through a certification and testing procedure.
Subject area examinations are now being required with min passing scores. The costs range from 4000-10,000 Baht per test. This with the average teaching salary of 30,000 Baht a month. (Including cultural and teching seminars)
Will China end up doing the same thing? This would be an interesting topic.
Some of the recent flood of the potential China teaching ESL applicants are coming from Japan and Thailand.
1. Thailand is weeding out the fake and no-degree people and those with a non-related 4-year degree must get a teaching certification. Very big change here.
2. Taiwan requires teaching certifications now for all Public Schools. Universities are hiring those with a PhD or Masters only with published work.
3. Korea is starting background checks and rechecking degree holders, expect the latest pedo case to bring more changes here.
4. Japan's ESL industry is having a bust as some chains are going bankrupt all started when Nova fell apart.
It looks like China is going to be absorbing the ones that cannot meet the requirements above or caught up in the bust.
Be prepared for another drop in wages. |
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englishgibson
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4345
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 2:52 am Post subject: |
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They've now offered 16,000 rising to 18,000 after probation.
Any good? |
wow! 
i see EF applications accumulating
would you bend over for 20,000 (after probation)
surely, many in EF would love to see changes, and those few lovely EF franchisor bought shanghai EF centers that've been to set an example to the farce EF centers around china ARE ROCKING
peace to the EF founder that's probably rocking in swiss alps somewhere
and
cheers and beers to all kinda offers from EF |
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vikuk
Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1842
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:53 am Post subject: |
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There once was a poster called checkmate �
One of his first posts went �
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I know that EF has a bad reputation in many places but is it all deserved or is it that some people's expectations are always higher then their ability and an empty vessel makes the loudest noise......
For anyone else who seriously wants to know about my center please drop me a line or email or call our center and I will be happy to give you any information you need.
This is NOT an advertisiement for EF just 1 center manager who likes his job and thinks I could do a lot worse.
Different strokes for different folks. |
His last post ended with -
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Training centers are set up in high density residential areas with no play areas, outside activities, social skill programs, just small ill equipped classrooms with limited and usually rehashed material from other sources
definitely under qualified personnel in most administrative roles, over indulged spoilt children, arrogant and under educated parents, greedy owners and investors using slick advertising that promises a lot and gives nothing.
How do I know because ladies and gentleman coming up for your reading entertainment will be .... Confessions of A Branch Center Manager.
containing all you ever wanted to know about managing a training center. A behind the scenes look at all the tricks of the trade, From inflating your schools image, exaggerated advertising, the dancing monkeys, slight of hand, and the ever popular "Don't worry-trust me".
Coming soon to a message board near you |
We never did get that confession post � what a shame |
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Noelle
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 361
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:12 am Post subject: |
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Snoop bot,
just curious... where are getting your info from?
Especially about Thailand? I received maybe 6 offers from schools in Thailand stating that no experience was required. One school did want at least a TEFL/TESOL certificate.
After spending nearly 2 years of full-time blood, sweat and tears not to mention exhorbitant tuition fees on my M.A. in TESOL, I just decided to pass on Thailand altogether. The standard there seemed even lower than in China, no?
You're right about Japan and Korea though. I'm happy with Korea's latest crackdown. I heard that China now requires proof of a four year degree(any major) for all foreign teachers. I also heard that EF is trying to keep up by raising the bar a bit, but who knows...?
EF schools in California are thriving... or at least they were when I left. I also received a DoS offer from them in the states. I couldn't bring myself to even entertain the thought of taking such a position though. I did have a brief EF stint with as a "baby teacher" in China years ago. It was a good experience and an eye opener.
OP, if you really want to take a DoS position in any program, EF or otherwise, you really should collect as many references as possible from former and current employees and management. I'd think this would be especially true for schools in China operating under Chinese management. |
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matador
Joined: 07 Mar 2003
Posts: 281
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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I taught at EF in Shanghai as Senior Teacher at their op in Pudong about 3 yrs ago. 13k a month...about 12 hrs teaching a week, and a 2 hr meeting each week as well.
Very professional op with good people!
Its the luck of the draw. Some EF ops are great....some less so.
Feel free to PM me. |
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englishgibson
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4345
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| Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:45 am Post subject: |
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Yes, that franchisor owned EFs in Shanghai that're out to set an example. I bet they can avoid those royalty fees that other EFs try not to pay so much. You did the EF ｃｏｒｐｏｒａｔｅ ｇｉｇ ｔｈｅｒｅ， ｄｉｄｎ＇ｔ ｙｏｕ？ Ｔｈｅ ＥＦ ｃｏｒｐｏｒａｔｅ ｔｈａｔ Ｓｈａｎｇｈａｉ ｔｒｉｅｄ ｓｏ ｈａｒｄ ｔｏ ｉｎｔｒｏｄｕｃｅ ｔｏ ｔｈｅ ｒｅｓｔ ｏｆ ＥＦｓ ａｒｏｕｎｄ Ｃｈｉｎａ． Ｖｅｒｙ ｆｅｗ ｓｉｇｎｅｄ ｉｎ ｔｏ ｔｈａｔ． Ｗｈｙ ｗｏｕｌｄ ｔｈｅｙ？ Ｔｏ ｐａｙ ｔｈｏｓｅ ｒｏｙａｌｔｉｅｓ ｔｏ ａ ｃｏｍｐａｎｙ ｗｉｔｈ ｓｕｃｈ ａ ｌａｍｅ ｓｕｐｐｏｒｔ？
| Quote: |
| Its the luck of the draw. Some EF ops are great....some less so. |
ｉｔ＇ｓ ｔｈｅ ．ｕｃｋ ｏｆ ｔｈｅ ｄｒａｗ ｗｉｔｈ ｓｏｍｅ ＥＦ ｐｏ．ｐｓ
| Quote: |
| After spending nearly 2 years of full-time blood, sweat and tears not to mention exhorbitant tuition fees on my M.A. in TESOL, I just decided to pass on Thailand altogether. |
ｂｌｏｏｄ， ｗｅａｔ ａｎｄ ｔｅａｒｓ
ｈａｒｄ ｔｏ ｉｍａｇｉｎｅ ｔｈａｔ ｏｎｅ ｗｏｕｌｄ ＂ｐａｓｓ＂ ｏｎ Ｔｈａｉｌａｎｄ
Ｉ ｒｅｍｅｍｂｅｒ ｙｏｕｒ ｌｏｖｅｌｙ， ｂｕｔ ｓｈｏｒｔ ＥＦ Ｈａｎｇｈｚｈｏｕ ｅｘｐｅｒｉｅｎｃｅ ｔｈａｔ ｙｏｕ ｗｅｒｅｎ＇ｔ ｓｈｙ ｔｏ ｓｈａｒｅ ｗｉｔｈ ｕｓ
Ｎｏｗ， Ｃｈｅｃｋｍａｔｅ， ｗｈｅｒｅ＇ｒ ｙａ？
Ｃｈｅｅｒｓ ａｎｄ ｂｅｅｒｓ ｔｏ ｏｕｒ ｌａｕｎｄｒｙ ｍａｃｈｉｎｅｓ， ｅｘｃｅｐｔ ｔｈｅ ｏｎｅ ｃａｌｌｅｄ ＥＦ
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englishgibson
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4345
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| Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:53 am Post subject: |
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ｌｏｖｅｌｙ， ｍｙ ｗｉｆｅ ｄｏｎｗｌｏａｄｅｄ ｓｏｍｅ ｃｈｉｎｅｓｅ ｓｈ．ｔｅ ｉｎｔｏ ｍｙ ｃｏｍｐｕｔｅｒ ａｎｄ ｍｙ ｗｒｉｔｉｎｇ ｈａｓ ｂｅｃｏｍｅ ｍｏｒｅ ＂ｂｅａｕｔｉｆｕｌ＂ 
ｃｈｅｅｒｓ ａｎｄ ｂｅｅｒ ｔｏ ｏｕｒ ｃｏｍｐｕｔｅｒｓ |
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latefordinner
Joined: 19 Aug 2003
Posts: 973
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| Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:56 am Post subject: |
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EG:
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| ｌｏｖｅｌｙ， ｍｙ ｗｉｆｅ ｄｏｎｗｌｏａｄｅｄ ｓｏｍｅ ｃｈｉｎｅｓｅ ｓｈ．ｔｅ ｉｎｔｏ ｍｙ ｃｏｍｐｕｔｅｒ ａｎｄ ｍｙ ｗｒｉｔｉｎｇ ｈａｓ ｂｅｃｏｍｅ ｍｏｒｅ ＂ｂｅａｕｔｉｆｕｌ＂ |
And here I was thinking that you were just typing slowly for the slower thinkers among us |
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englishgibson
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4345
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| Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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i am glad she cancelled whatever she downloaded today...but i hope my writing is still beautiful
peace to mcEF burgers
and
cheers and beers to the speed of our horses and beautiful wives |
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OGFT
Joined: 24 Jun 2006
Posts: 432
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:39 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
clark.w.griswald wrote:
OGFT wrote:
Instead of being a proponent of anything limiting discussion, you should encourage debate and the free exchange of information.
You can't be very familiar with my posts here considering that you suggest I try to limit discussion!
I am all for discussion but for it to be valuable discussion... |
and of course, it is Clark who decides if the post is valuable or not. That is what I would call limiting the discussion. |
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SnoopBot
Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 740
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:33 am Post subject: |
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| Noelle wrote: |
Snoop bot,
just curious... where are getting your info from?
Especially about Thailand? I received maybe 6 offers from schools in Thailand stating that no experience was required. One school did want at least a TEFL/TESOL certificate.
After spending nearly 2 years of full-time blood, sweat and tears not to mention exhorbitant tuition fees on my M.A. in TESOL, I just decided to pass on Thailand altogether. The standard there seemed even lower than in China, no?
You're right about Japan and Korea though. I'm happy with Korea's latest crackdown. I heard that China now requires proof of a four year degree(any major) for all foreign teachers. I also heard that EF is trying to keep up by raising the bar a bit, but who knows...?
EF schools in California are thriving... or at least they were when I left. I also received a DoS offer from them in the states. I couldn't bring myself to even entertain the thought of taking such a position though. I did have a brief EF stint with as a "baby teacher" in China years ago. It was a good experience and an eye opener.
OP, if you really want to take a DoS position in any program, EF or otherwise, you really should collect as many references as possible from former and current employees and management. I'd think this would be especially true for schools in China operating under Chinese management. |
The information about Thailand is posted on Ajarn.com The alter-ego ESL site specializing in Thailand.
If you want I can look for the exact thread. You can scan the Thailand jobs advertised there too. Not much of a real choice, it looks like soon Thailand might actually fall lower than China on the pay scale.
Thailand, is starting to revamp their teaching system with that pedophile case (Canadian caught in Thailand this month) along with the famous Karr pedophile case, they require all types of paperwork and hoops to teach there.
As I understand it, we would not be required to take exams in subject areas because we have a M.Ed. M.Ed and B.Ed people are exempt from this process. However, we would need to take the "Thailand Culture and XXX course" to get a license. Some places are also demanding ESL qualifications (offered for a fee at their institution of course) before you can teach.
It looks like Thailand has raised their benchmark... BUT many of the local universities and fly-by-night outfits are using the new regulations to squeeze money out of the FT's BEFORE they even teach. I feel its all a scam, I WOULDN'T DOUBT THAT WE MIGHT BE FORCED TO TAKE SOME THAI TESOL COURSE, even though we already have a master's in TESOL.
I feel it is a scam being placed on the FT's now to squeeze extra money out of them. Prices for the certification exams run from 4000-10,000 Baht. Those teachers that don't have a MEd or BEd will be required to take 4 of them. Possibly even a prep course BEFORE taking the exam. All in all this is for a 30,000 baht salary.
I see the the potential FT's paying more than 3 months of their teaching salary just to meet these regulations. How and If this will be enforced , who knows? But I do know, once Thai schools can make money off certifying FT's they will all demand these requirements be met.
The big question? When will the Chinese figure out that they can earn a buck off of us and do the same thing? Require us to take "Chinese Cultural and Marxism classes " before we can teach? Maybe charge us 5000-10,000 RMB per class?
I'm telling ALL of YOU this is going to be the next step in the future for us, I bet you a 6 pack of YangJing beer!
(Any of you check out the latest new Foreign Expert License requirements that just came out? I don't think it looks good for the FT's.
At first I felt these things were a good thing, get rid of the losers and fakes that give us all a bad name and our wages will go up. Well this didn't work in Thailand, I think it just gives more power to a shoddy contract or school to cheat you.. period! |
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