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SnoopBot
Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 740
Location: USA
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 Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| englishgibson wrote: |
Vanica thanx for the story
I have a student who've studied at NO in Beijing. Since someone here mentioned that NO's got bilingual environment, i'd like to point out that my student cannot contribute to discussions on varieties of topics in English well enough. His naive and primitive replies with an extreemly unusual (chinese) intonation gives me a good idea where it comes from.  By the way, this student's planning to join a western uni next year.
peace to NO
and
cheers and beers to chinese business environment |
I cringe at the problems he will have if his English level is that poor and he is going to attend a western university. |
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johnchina
Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 816
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:02 am Post subject: none |
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SnoopBot wrote - "I cringe at the problems he will have if his English level is that poor and he is going to attend a western university."
This could be a thread in itself! (And probably has been ...)
1. Unable to understand lectures. Result: Skips lectures, copies notes from other students (but probably doesn't understand them)
2. Unable to understand written language or write in English. Result: copy and paste jobs from the Internet.
3. Unable to converse in seminars. Result: Skips seminars after attending a couple of times and having the other students look at him/her thinking "How did he/she get here?"
4. Plenty of free time (due to above) plus loads of cash from rich, doting parents plus no experience of being independent (probably combined with the naivety level of a six-year old) - recipe for disaster!!!
5. Returns to China with qualification from Western uni but no actual academic abilities. |
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SnoopBot
Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 740
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:12 am Post subject: Re: none |
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| johnchina wrote: |
SnoopBot wrote - "I cringe at the problems he will have if his English level is that poor and he is going to attend a western university."
This could be a thread in itself! (And probably has been ...)
1. Unable to understand lectures. Result: Skips lectures, copies notes from other students (but probably doesn't understand them)
2. Unable to understand written language or write in English. Result: copy and paste jobs from the Internet.
3. Unable to converse in seminars. Result: Skips seminars after attending a couple of times and having the other students look at him/her thinking "How did he/she get here?"
4. Plenty of free time (due to above) plus loads of cash from rich, doting parents plus no experience of being independent (probably combined with the naivety level of a six-year old) - recipe for disaster!!!
5. Returns to China with qualification from Western uni but no actual academic abilities. |
I am not sure about undergrad studies, but all of the International Students were bounced right out of both my MBA and MEd programs for the slightest academic or non-attendance reasons.
Only 1 grade of "C" would be accepted a final GPA average of 3.4 had to be met or you did not graduate.
For my MBA, if the person couldn't give oral business presentations or participate in group projects they were removed from the program.
The MEd program was a little better as they had various teachers teaching in their L1 to meet the Bilingual-Multicultural teaching certification portion.
However, most had to give practical lessons and perform teaching projects in English. If your speaking ability was low, you failed, period.
Research projects were part of every class, with a final Research Practicum of over 50 pages. They bounced 4 for plagarism on their final project.
I saw many of the International Students get bounced from the MBA program and a handful from the MEd TESOL program.
Like I said they are in for a rude awakening, if they think they can slide by like they could do in a Chinese University even if they come from a wealthy politically connected family, it's tough luck. |
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johnchina
Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 816
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:46 am Post subject: none |
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| SnoopBot - Excellent! I wish other unis had the same policies. May I ask which uni? PM me if you prefer. |
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SnoopBot
Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 740
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:40 am Post subject: Re: none |
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| johnchina wrote: |
| SnoopBot - Excellent! I wish other unis had the same policies. May I ask which uni? PM me if you prefer. |
John no problem. finally my PM function is enabled again.
I feel this is the standard policy for many USA masters programs. They are much easier to get into for the International Students, but do not cut much slack.
Undergraduate programs usually cut some slack, but because the slots are often filled, it is hard for International Students to get in them.
Master's programs often cannot find enough paying students to keep the programs alive so they are easier to get into for IS.
Both Universities had a good support program for Int Students but if they sensed ANY Goofing around or misconduct (cheating) out you went.
These students must understand graduate school testing is not a multiple choice test. I was happy if I got a multiple-choice test. (at least you can guess on them)
The typical MEd class had these same elements:
2 quizes (usually written answer essay)
1 Teaching project and presentation usually interactive
A Midterm
Some type of group article review or mini-research project (both oral and written)
Final exam (often included another presentation part)
As you can see, lots of talking, writing, and presentation skills are involved.
If you were not at almost the Native-Speaker level, you suffered. (You still suffered as a Native Speaker! LOL)
I might add if you had an "A" average but missed more than 3 classes per course you got an Incomplete and had the chance to retake it if the reasons were valid for missing the classes.
I had 2 Incomplete marks on my transcripts over a 3-year period. One from a hospitalization and another for the flu. As you can see the rules were strict, I made all test and had a passing average at this point but still was given an "I" due to this rule.
Therefore, you cannot cut classes even if you have a temperature of 104F. You went !
I PM'd you both Universities to you. |
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englishgibson
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4345
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:39 am Post subject: |
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gents, i am involved in a program called ACT in china now....apparently, this ACT SOLUTION company is stationed in Australia, although ACT's got to do with entry exams to the US unis (mostly private)...there's a chinese head quarter in shanghai and they kinda "franchise" centers around...well, they provide programs with subjects in science, IT, maths besides english and on the end students get their Global Assessment Certificates (GAC)...not fully licensed in china they hide in chinese colleges/unis...their customers are rich parents' kids that have been unable to get into chinese unis or kids that are a failure in their high schools..i've got quite a few that have not even finished their high school yet..probably trying to skip/cut corners and buy their way to the west...a while back i started this thread in order the get an idea how many of those centers are around and how well FTs cope with the company's bullsh*t, however got lil feedback there...by the way, this farce organization in china's completely managed by chinese....here's the link to it below
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=46481
not that i'm trying to sway this thread...just connecting or believe to be connecting to your lovely discussion above
peace to ch-education
and
cheers and beers our hard work in china |
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johnchina
Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 816
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:39 am Post subject: none |
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I know there are exceptions, such as at SnoopBot's uni, and it's worth knowing which unis are the exceptions, but the fact is that most of the Chinese students who go abroad learn zilch because they're not up to scratch and the Western unis put cash before education.
As with EG's experience, the vast majority of Chinese students going abroad are from rich families and failed to get into Chinese unis. However, Western unis kid themselves into believing that these students are the cream of the crop. A small minority (generally heading to the USA with scholarships) are good - the rest are not. |
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englishgibson
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4345
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| Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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i've come across a TOEFL book that's advertised on a site http://www.dogwood.com.cn/
the site as well as the book've NEW ORIENTAL both in the top left corner on..the book's for sale in china only...students of an ACT center in nanning preparing for their lovely venture to western unis and their TOEFL have got this book...it's full of chinese language and of course there is some English in it too 
just wondering what settlement has NEW ORIENTAL come to with the TOEFL in court?
peace to the lovely new oriental as well as their tofu
and
cheers and beers to all chinese business people in education  |
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SnoopBot
Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 740
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| englishgibson wrote: |
i've come across a TOEFL book that's advertised on a site http://www.dogwood.com.cn/
the site as well as the book've NEW ORIENTAL both in the top left corner on..the book's for sale in china only...students of an ACT center in nanning preparing for their lovely venture to western unis and their TOEFL have got this book...it's full of chinese language and of course there is some English in it too
just wondering what settlement has NEW ORIENTAL come to with the TOEFL in court?
peace to the lovely new oriental as well as their tofu
and
cheers and beers to all chinese business people in education |
They got their licensed pulled as an authorized testing center for ETS (Toefl,GRE,GMAT,SAT company) Which means their students would need to take their exams at another authorized place. Some fine, (not sure how much) However, it looks like their authorization is back for ETS testing now.
A rumor going around in the academia circles centered around certain Chinese institutions capturing screen shots on events.
This means a program was running on the adaptive testing computers that would trigger capturing the screen in a .bmp file on each mouse click.
They would then devise a test question pool based on the questions they got off the captured screenshots.
Investigations into fraud was initiated when various Chinese students with high Toefl scores entered US universities that couldn't mumble but a few words of English. |
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englishgibson
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4345
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 4:13 am Post subject: |
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i like those chinese companies that get the green light from their government and go so big that they get investors flocking in and then the company gets in the market
http://asia.news.yahoo.com/070724/3/359jw.html
shares 
a lovely center below
| Quote: |
Beijing New Oriental Foreign Language School at Yangzhou is a K-12 boarding school emphasizing fluency in one or more foreign languages, as well as education in all academic areas as required by the National Curriculum. Set in a beautiful environment and refreshed by clear air�
The school is designed to accommodate about 4000 boarding students. In addition to incorporating the latest educational equipment and facilities, administrators have introduced a new concept and spirit into the daily teaching and operations of the school. That new concept and spirit emphasizes student-centered teaching, global educational perspectives and life-long learning mentality and skills. The school boasts a faculty of highly trained teachers selectively employed from all areas of China and abroad�. |
http://www.neworiental-k12.org/english/index.htm
great advert�I like that �clean air� � does any of you teach at this "most famous company" in china??? 
peace to the founder of new oriental who's spent so much time on dining and wining with the officials to get this "famous recognition"
and
cheers and beers to all laowais working in the new oriental clean air environment with that new concept and spirit |
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johnchina
Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 816
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| Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 2:10 am Post subject: none |
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What drivel!
Student-centred learning? At New Oriental?
First ... followed by ... |
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englishgibson
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4345
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:37 am Post subject: |
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from the scores of foreign teachers in china few or any have worked at this farce company
i've seen those faces of hope to study abroad on TV and they still join new oriental that prepares them .... can't believe that chinese go for it
peace to the student-centered learning at this lovely company that prepares for abroad studies
and
cheers and beers to the laowais that work there |
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YankeeDoodleDandy
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 428
Location: Xi'an , Shaanxi China
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:06 pm Post subject: New Oriental |
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| In Xi'an you can take a course at New Oriental to prepare for the IELTS exam. Taught by Chinese English teachers. !80 classes for 3,000 RMB. I know of three students who have taken this course and only one of them has received a score of 6.0 or higher. One foreign teacher offers one on one consultation for 180 RMB per hour. |
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englishgibson
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4345
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| Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 2:47 am Post subject: |
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that "consultation" is rather interestin'...sounds like a work not under the New Oriental management
Xi'an is a large city and community of foreign experts i assume, however i bet this organization isn't lookin' for the quality of education, is it?
i've noticed an increase of chain/franchised operations with centers around china that take/rely mostly on chinese academic staff...however we come as "consultants" somewhere in there at times
for example, there's an ACT Solution group in china and apparently they've expanded to 35 centers and rather quietly ...this is a company that prepares chinese students to join western unis...all under the chinese management and ch-teachers quite completely in control..then, using the Australian connection somehow (sutisfiable cooperation in between'em i suppose)
if this trend goes on, we'll all become those "consultants" that will be called upon only on occasions like the PLASTIC SURGEONS
peace to the trend in this lovely country
and
cheers and beers to all consultants in that work so hard to mend things 
_____________________________________________________________
getting rid of expensive foreign labor and the western approach/attitudes is not as difficult, is it |
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Teatime of Soul
Joined: 12 Apr 2007
Posts: 905
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| Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:35 am Post subject: |
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I too have noticed some chains that have "discovered" foreigners are entirely unnecessary to teach English.
I have walked by and watched the little tykes cheerily and confidently bellowing out "Hav-uh good-uh morning teecher!!" to an approving Chinese teacher of English.
Standing outside later, I was swarmed by older students, many who have had six or more years of similar instruction. Only one out of a hundred had the confidence to approach a foreigner and actually try to engage in English conversation. Sadly, that brave soul was usually a better student, and the English delivered was all but incomprehensible.
Still and all, the parents are the customers and if they are satisfied with the product.... I guess this is just "English with Chinese characteristics".
Interesting trend. |
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