Job Discussion Forums

[Lorean]

[johnchina]

The students give their excuses (see above posts) for plagiarising, then when masses of people have qualifications because it's so easy to get them by plagiarising, they start moaning about the intense competition to get a good job.

[China.Pete]

Regarding the references to relativism by Shan-Shan and others, one of the problems in trying to deal with plagiarism as a moral issue is indeed the fact that Chinese students (and maybe even their school leaders) sometimes view this differently than Western educators do. While you can fault their logic, I think it might be more productive to implement a system within the classroom which is at least internally logical, and which rewards scholarship while precluding any likely rewards for plagiarism. That way, the ethical lessons can be learned indirectly through practical experience, while possibly pointless arguments about the morality of it all can be avoided.

[vikuk]

The idea of copying is something that's ingrained into Eastern teaching philosophy - the master teacher with students copying from the master.
To understand its roots just look at trad Chinese art - which is more or less a continuous repetition of traditional motifs where the technique employed (the famous Chinese brushstroke) is of equal or maybe even more importance than that which is being portrayed.
In this type of learning environment problem solving takes a second place - since by showing you what is correct and what should be copied then there in not much room for thinking over and analyzing error.
Rote learning systems that are used in the Chinese English classrooms are classic examples of copying the master.
And then comes an FT - and gives the poor students that awful problem of using that almost unknown tool - their imaginations.
WAWWWWWWWWW - no one to copy - except google!!!!!!!!

[laska]

[quote="AussieGuyInChina"]

[Tarheel 13]

[laska]

Of course China Pete is right.

People here mostly just care about face and credentials.

Originality is not rewarded, right? To put it simply.

There is also the cultural side. It's safer to speak with the authority of other people's words.

My wife is finishing up a second degree in night school. For her thesis, the rule is she is not allowed to copy verbatim more than 500 words without citing it. !!!

[johnchina]

To the people seem to be referring to plagiarism as an acceptable part of Chinese/Eastern culture, I would just like to check that I have not misunderstood you.

Dictionary.com defines plagiarism as

"1. the unauthorized use or close imitation of the language and thoughts of another author and the representation of them as one's own original work.
2. something used and represented in this manner."

[My bold.]

So, if I copied out the works of Confucius (or how about Mao?) and published a book of them with my name on the cover and no reference to Confucius (or Mao) whatsoever, and claimed it was all my original writing, the Chinese would consider that totally acceptable?

You're freaking kidding, right?

[latefordinner]

johnC:

[johnchina]

[Lorean]

[kungfucowboy83]

[SimonM]

[SimonM]

[erinyes]

Make the tasks very specific, so odd that to answer the question effectively they will have to write it themselves, because the only way to find the essay on the net is to pay for someone in India to do it for them... at least they will have to pay for their dishonesty.

Eg.
What do �Robin Hood� and �Alice in Wonderland� have in common?

Describe the relationship between an Elephant and a mouse as depicted in Disney cartoons.

What do you think goes through the mind of a male praying mantis after he's finished having sex with a female?

Describe a day in the life of a lunchbox.

After watching the movie 'Harry Potter' who do you think was the most attractive teacher and why?

Write the missing chapter in Harry Potter when Harry punches Dudley in the head and then casts a forgetting spell on him.

There is so much you can do! I teach a class of international students in Australia and many of them copy stuff off the net... but happily, the questions are specific enough that I can genuinely fail students for copying and pasting off the net, because their copying doesn't address the question. Even if I thought it was their work, they wouldn�t be able to pass. The only ones who do cheat and pass are the ones who are willing to pay tutors.