Job Discussion Forums

[rusmeister]

The Moscow region is not so different, except not all goods and services are available that are available in Moscow; but then, neither do you have the levels of pollution, crime and traffic. But even out in the boonies (I'm talking more than 30 kilometers from Moscow to the borders of the region (oblast)) you have dramatically increased traffic and numbers of strangers passing through or moving into or out of your town over what was 10 years ago. Parking in my town has become nutty -the place was designed for pedestrian traffic, and the problems caused by cars are legion. Prices are only slightly cheaper than Moscow, but salaries lag far behind so a great many people make a daily pilgrimage to work in Moscow which involves a 2-3 hr commute. (An avg of 5 hours of commuting a day really grinds you down, but armies of people do this, which is why the major highways into town are jam-packed at rush hour.)

[maruss]

This is a nightmare that is suffered by millions of people every day,mainly for the reasons which Rusmeister has already told us:money!
Prices have gone up considerably this year and the disparity in wages outside the city makes life for people living there literally a battle for survival as they are forced to commute.It is also a fact that prices in the suburban and satellite areas are only very slightly less than in the city.
The sheer overcrowding and congestion on all forms of transport,not to mention the ecological problems, are an ever tightening screw that urgently needs attention and with the vast income Russia is supposedly earning, the government should remember that most of their population do not live in Moscow,neither are they rolling in money!

[Deano1979]

[Deano1979]

[maruss]

How do you define it?My best Russian friend earns about $3000 per month including his 'black salary' portion, has about two foreign holidays per year and supports his wife and 2 young boys with it as well as buying a small boat and summer house in Zavidovo.He says that even by Moscow standards,he considers himself in the 'lucky 10-15%' of people.He says he was also lucky to be able to buy an old appartment and renovate it some years ago due to a legacy from his grandfather.But he has family members such as his parents and uncles who were former academics and scientists who have to survive on meagre pensions of around $200 per month and considers this to be one of the many injustices in Russia today,adding that many,many Muscovites still earn only $400-600 per month in a wide range of jobs such as supermarket cashiers and manual work etc.
But like he points out,quality is what counts at the end of the day and he considers it would be better to have a more simple, but cleaner and much healthier life in somewhere like Cyprus where I live(and which he also knows well) than earn $10.000 per month in Moscow and suffer the pollution and grime every day etc?
What do you think Bels and Rusmeister?

[coledavis]

I was wondering about other cities entirely, not the Moscow periphery. I'm not having a go at you guys, just wondering if there's anyone out there who has been working way out, i.e. in another oblast completely.

[jpvanderwerf2001]

I've been in Vladivostok going on three years.
I see this thread has turned into a bit of a "cost of living" discussion, so I'm adding in that vein.
To live comfortably (comfort defined here as eating out three times a week, buying amenities, occasional regional travel, having a social life, having a decent flat in a relatively desirable location, not worrying about paying that heating bill), one would need to make roughly 25,000-30,000 rubles/month. Of course, most locals live on much less, but a foreigner isn't a local by definition.
Rent in a decent one-room flat will cost in the 12-15K ruble/month range. A good night out will cost 1000 rubles (either a ncie restaurant or night club...not both). Any airfare from this monopolized airport will be at least $500 (e.g. Seoul costs $800 return last I checked). Food isn't cheap, especially if you don't live on frozen pelmeni and belyash everyday. Milk products and veggies are especially dear. Even eggs are getting up there in price.
In short, Vladivostok is not the pennies-on-the-dollar place that many might think. It's the second-most expensive city in Russia, by many opinions (affordable housing is especially a rare commodity).
This is not to scare people, it's reality. Take into account that most language schools will pay 35K+ for a starting, full-time salary. (There aren't many language schools in town, unfortunately.) Also, as I have written before, private lessons can pay anywhere from 500 to 800 rubles/academic hour.

[rusmeister]

A thread on salaries would have to include discussion on cost of living (COL).

Hey, JP, good layout of the COL!
But Moscow and the Moscow region are easily more expensive. Multiply costs by 50-100%.

The biggest change for people who have had prior experience living here has been inflation, and this has hit food especially hard. The difference with the 90's is that in the 90's the dollar went 'up' and people were paid in 'u.e.' (uslovnaya edinitsa - a code term for the dollar) and salaries issued in rubles varied, because the ruble dropped, prices went up in rubles, but that didn't touch the expat because he made his salary in dollars. For the past several years the dollar has been weak and now is dropping, but prices in rubles continue to rise. This means expats are becoming gradually poorer and poorer in real terms. Where a $1,200-1,500/month salary used to provide a comfortable living for any expat, now it does not.
Of course, teachers working for McSchools hopefully will have their rent covered, so it would be possible to make a subsistence-level living on that kind of money. But the new visa law might put a real damper on that possibility.
Last time I was talking about cheese (a relative luxury), but milk has been shooting up, too - approaching the 40 ruble /liter mark.

Just picked up from the Moscow Times that the government is acting to impose price freezes so the population doesn't revolt. Of course, that could simply be trying to cap a volcano...

[Red and white]

[coledavis]

Thanks JP, that was useful. I rather suspect that the less key cities are likely to be different, but useful nevertheless.

[Deano1979]

[MIKEBUCHAN]

Thank you coledavis for the 'invite' to join this thread!

I read every poster's rant - today - and can agree with very few parts of what is written and argue with all. I read that someone near the end has stated that there are two different sides to this salary thing. And I agree with that wholeheartedly. An employer is going to max out his earnings anyway he can and offering low salaries and shared housing is a huge savings that infaltes the bottom line. I owned a language school in Los Angeles in the mid 1980's so I know how to make money from education. I had 40 teachers and no advertising and needed more teachers weekly - and we charged $35 USD back then for an hour of instruction. And all of us worked 50 plus hours everyweek!

Some of you I know or have met and others I know from reading your posts.

I was in Saudi Arabia in the mid '90's and salaries were 1/2 again more than they are now in that country and with bonuses and benefits that were 100% more than they are now. $70,000 plus tax free, a villa and a car were the base starting points -- then. That was in times of cost plus!


I can tell you a big reason that the salaries are low and will stay low until a couple of things change. One is when the 'real' backpacker types disappear! The other (sorry Brits) is the idea that in the UK you can be a teacher with NO higher education at all - not a single degree --- only some kind of certificate from a school that says you are a teacher. I have met far too many of these 'teachers' - no education, no idea how to conduct a class, no idea how to teach anything at all. And they take any salary that is offered. And as an American (usually dispised by the imperialists of England and fed up being called a colonist) I am fed up having to show these idiot 'teachers' how to teach basic grammar to advanced classes. I just returned to Ufa from Baku and had one of these 90 day wonders from England brag about his first trip into Russia and being thrown into the local prison for public drunkeness and having no education - and all of this was at our first meeting no less - then ask me how to teach an IELTS class.

So, when the imperialists of that island off France's west coast START requiring a higher education BEFORE allowing people to teach anywhere in the world ------- then salaries should go up and rather quickly.

Yes, I can rant about stupid unqualified people as teachers -- I have a BA in English and a MSc in TEFOL and a real teaching credential issued by the State of California (which a person must have 150 hours of further preperation to maintain this credential - and this 150 hours is aquired during the five years between renew of the license). And 11 years teaching in the USA and 12 years teaching in other parts of the world.

I have lived in Ufa for 5 years and the costs are climbing rather quickly here too. Two years ago it did not cost 700 rubles for a one way ride in a taxi from the airport to my home in the center of the downtown area of Ufa. My Russian wife an I live in an older 5th floor walk up and our rent is 9000 rubles/month - I believe the cost has gone up 500 rubles/month each year since we moved here in 2004. The cost of buying an apartment has more than doubled in the last two years to around 45.000 rubles per meter square. And Russian salaries here have not kept up with the infaltion, neither has salaries for foreigners. I believe this lack of funding is that employers want a bigger bottom line and foreigners will work for peanuts!

[blackcorsair]

[coledavis]

Thanks for coming in. The last paragraph, re Ufa, was rather useful.

With regards to British TEFL-ers: it depends upon the course. CELTA (and I would imagine the Trinity College certificate) require a degree and a fairly exacting grammar test for admission. Having said that, there is the unfortunate but widely encouraged idea going about that you don't need training and that therefore any cruddy old course or none is better than spending money on CELTA.

With regards to the pernicious effect of backpackers: well to a point, but remember that even if everybody was dedicated to the career, there would still be a glut of graduates (now that UK has expanded its higher education provision) with a the rather common shared skill of having been brought up to speak English. So exploitation was always going to be easy. So, although there is a difference between teaching and teaching well, the market won't reflect this very much. (By the way, remembering formal grammar terms is not my strong point, so although I'm popular with beginners and upper intermediates alike, I'd dread to teach IELTS.)

[Deano1979]

Those pesky backpackers. Taking a job that is harder then rocket science and driving down already rock bottom poverty level salaries in third world countries. How are we supposed to live our western middle class lives in a third world country with these monsters running amok?

This place disgusts me. The pompous arrogant attitudes of some of the career teachers on this website is nothing short of pathetic. You swear every backpacker or proffesional on a career break was nothing more then a waste of oxygen, incapable of contributing to anything other then the problem. I really dont understand what the hell you guys are doing in the CIS anymore. It sounds like the place is almost as bad as an African country.

I thank the people who have tried to provide honest advice and considered the fact that maybe not all people were trying to make a career out of this. Everyone has different expectations and goals when it comes to EFL.

If the job can be done by a monkey, and people are prepared to pay money to be taught by a monkey, then why would you pay monkeys a zoo keepers wage? Monkeys may have been a luxury 10 years ago. Hell, they may have been rare 5 years ago. Seems to me the world has caught on and suddenly the world is starting to realise that the monkeys are not that hard to find.

I am done with the poison and hidden agendas of the contributors on this forum. Having contacted teachers currently in Russia, it appears that a large percentage of the posters on this forum are posting tripe.

Good bye and good luck.