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john_n_carolina

Joined: 26 Feb 2006 Posts: 700 Location: n. carolina
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Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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| ....yes, good points. at my public highschool, we currently have 4 pregnant girls. they seem to do ok, i don't seem them that much. i think they stay at home a lot with morning sickness, headaches, etc. especially, the later term ones. but, i see them from time to time in history class. |
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cangringo

Joined: 18 Jan 2007 Posts: 327 Location: Vancouver, Canada
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Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:18 am Post subject: |
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I think the point was that it wouldn't be accepted in the US or Canada. People may try to expel students for being gay or pregnant or what have you but if that is found to be the reason, people speak out about it. I haven't heard of this happening in Canada and not being hotly contested.
As for this
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if parents are choosing a school and paying $13,000 a year, they want that school to adhere to the principles of the Bible. as far as i know, the Bible doesn't advocate homosexuality. |
and this
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| but also, people have a right to not be in a homosexual environment if they're specifically choosing that school. |
Well, wow!! I am not gay and I find it that offensive. So basically you are advocating the "it's ok to be gay but stay away from me..." stance. I'm staying away from this one as I don't think it's the place but ....wow!!! |
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Samantha

Joined: 25 Oct 2003 Posts: 2038 Location: Mexican Riviera
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Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:56 am Post subject: |
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| Truly. That and the fact that our friend appears to think pregnancy is a handicap, inhibiting learning abilities by causing headaches. |
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GueroPaz
Joined: 07 Sep 2007 Posts: 216 Location: Thailand or Mexico
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Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:26 am Post subject: |
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Indeed, being pregnant in secondary school does not need to be a handicap or a disqualifying condition for students. My brilliant 17 year old was about to finish high school with high honors, officer of National Honorary Society, etc., when she became pregnant. She not only finished, but she went on and graduated four years later with honors as an education and science major, etc. What helped is that the school didn't force her to finish in a third rate program, didn't even expel her from her NHS position, both families supported the couple, etc.
My second daughter got embarrassed at age 16, when she needed that pregnancy program that our current school district didn't have. We moved across town, she finished her year at school, she and her husband were helped to get their GED's, and everybody lived happily ever after.
Mexico is a different culture; not sure what would have happened. But the father of my 23 year old grandson is a Mexican-American! |
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john_n_carolina

Joined: 26 Feb 2006 Posts: 700 Location: n. carolina
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Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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have you seen the internal organs of a 30 week mother? it's not a pretty sight. i'd say to my daughter, "If you can do it, go to class." otherwise, sit at home and rest, go for a walk, listen to Mozart.
reasons for staying home:
no lead in the drinking water
good food / snacks
easy place to vomit
you can sleep any time
talk on the phone
you can do your stretching, excersises, etc
no falling down cement, metal steps.(there was a case of a miscarriage from this, i'll look it up)
my wife slept about 2 hours a night during the first trimester and the last. how can you go to class on 2 hours of sleep?? my wife vomited every morning for about 30 minutes during the first and last trimesters...you feel like studying Napolean after that? i'm not against going to H.S. pregnant, but for some women it will be very hard. |
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john_n_carolina

Joined: 26 Feb 2006 Posts: 700 Location: n. carolina
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Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| i'm not gay either but as for this Trinity Christian school. it's a private school? the parent's are choosing this school and paying $13,000 / yr. the school made the right decision based on it's policy. i didn't say i was in agreement with the school's decision. that's just the way it is. private schools can do whatever they want. |
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MELEE

Joined: 22 Jan 2003 Posts: 2583 Location: The Mexican Hinterland
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Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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Not every women handles pregnancy the same way. It sounds like your wife was one of the unlucky ones.
I had a twin pregnancy, know for being more difficult than a singleton pregnancy, yet I only vomited once at work. It did become hard to me to go up and down the stairs and the very steep hill we have here on campus--but I was carrying 10 lbs of baby, 4 lbs of placenta, and 2 lbs of fluid.
Most women, gradually sleep less and less in a pregnancy, this is good prepartion for life with a newborn.
Having been pregnant myself, I personally think it would be much easier to go to HS pregnant, than it would be to go to highschool for the first 3 months after birth. I aplaud and admire all those strong women who have done so. There's a reason men don't have babies, most men would never have the strength to endure motherhood. |
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tagastelum
Joined: 09 Jun 2006 Posts: 49 Location: Delegaci�n Cuauht�moc | M�XICO DF
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Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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The best thing about these forums is that if you just wait awhile, someone else will make your point.
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| Does that not just add to the idea that machismo exists? He cannot be kicked out as he needs to become well educated so that he can then be well employed and provide for his "family"....I bet he was rid of his girlfriend faster than the school was rid of her. |
Thanks, Dixie. And yes, he dropped her faster than you can say "Adios!"
I never intended to communicate that pregnant students are not discriminated against in the US and Canada. Of course they are. What I aimed to suggest (and did a poor job of it, apparently, given some of your comments) is that machismo punishes women and men differently for similar transgressions.
Moreover, when men and women do receive similar treatment, it often seems to be for different reasons, sometimes grounded in machismo. One example: Mexican parents allowing their adult children to live with them ad infinitum. Although economic considerations cannot be dismissed, it also appears that women are expected to stay at home until they marry as a way to exert control over their independence and chastity. Men are expected to stay at home for the advantages this arrangement conveys. If mom and dad can continue to help Junior out, then he can concentrate on advancing his education, career or what-have-you until he finally marries. Of course, he may come and go as he pleases. (Cangringo, you made a comment about all the Mama's Boys here. I agree and I think that it's enabled by this cultural trait.)
A final thought: although discrimination against gays and lesbians is wrong wherever it takes place, that is not the issue I commented on. I'd be more than happy to add my thoughts on this topic in a new thread if anyone cares to launch it. |
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TheLongWayHome

Joined: 07 Jun 2006 Posts: 1016 Location: San Luis Piojosi
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Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| MELEE wrote: |
| There's a reason men don't have babies, most men would never have the strength to endure motherhood. |
And all women do?
Anyway, seems to me that the worst, not to mention scariest part of being pregnant in Mexico, is having to give birth in the IMSS.
| tagastelum wrote: |
| Moreover, when men and women do receive similar treatment, it often seems to be for different reasons, sometimes grounded in machismo. One example: Mexican parents allowing their adult children to live with them ad infinitum. Although economic considerations cannot be dismissed, it also appears that women are expected to stay at home until they marry as a way to exert control over their independence and chastity. Men are expected to stay at home for the advantages this arrangement conveys. If mom and dad can continue to help Junior out, then he can concentrate on advancing his education, career or what-have-you until he finally marries. Of course, he may come and go as he pleases. (Cangringo, you made a comment about all the Mama's Boys here. I agree and I think that it's enabled by this cultural trait.) |
Good point. To add to this, in most Mexican families the male siblings are usually given preferential treatment by the mother, spawning generation upon generation of machos and mama's boys. My brother-in-law cries when he doesn't get what he wants. Ok if you're 2 years old but he's 22 FFS! And the mother gives in...  |
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tagastelum
Joined: 09 Jun 2006 Posts: 49 Location: Delegaci�n Cuauht�moc | M�XICO DF
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Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| ...in most Mexican families the male siblings are usually given preferential treatment by the mother, spawning generation upon generation of machos and mama's boys. |
Spot on TheLongWayHome!
Although I know that it's used as a simple term of affection, I cringe whenever I hear Mexican mothers refer to their sons as "mi rey." The fact is that these boys are so often treated as little kings.
My personal pet peeve is that which comes in response to a boy's temper tantrum: "�Qu� quieres, mi rey?"
Ugh.
I'll stop before I go even further off topic. |
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MO39

Joined: 28 Jan 2004 Posts: 1970 Location: El ombligo de la Rep�blica Mexicana
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Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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| tagastelum wrote: |
| Moreover, when men and women do receive similar treatment, it often seems to be for different reasons, sometimes grounded in machismo. One example: Mexican parents allowing their adult children to live with them ad infinitum. Although economic considerations cannot be dismissed, it also appears that women are expected to stay at home until they marry as a way to exert control over their independence and chastity. Men are expected to stay at home for the advantages this arrangement conveys. If mom and dad can continue to help Junior out, then he can concentrate on advancing his education, career or what-have-you until he finally marries. Of course, he may come and go as he pleases. (Cangringo, you made a comment about all the Mama's Boys here. I agree and I think that it's enabled by this cultural trait.) |
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Good point. To add to this, in most Mexican families the male siblings are usually given preferential treatment by the mother, spawning generation upon generation of machos and mama's boys. My brother-in-law cries when he doesn't get what he wants. Ok if you're 2 years old but he's 22 FFS! And the mother gives in...  |
I've been coming to Mexico since 1966, and it saddens me to think that the manifestations of machismo spelled out above are still going strong. Maybe that's why I never ended up with a long-term Mexican boyfriend, always looking for one with all the qualities I like in Mexican men without the machismo. Of course, there are exceptions, like my newest private student who has lived on his own for years (he's 39) but recently moved back with his mother after his father died to help her out, not to have her take care of him (though he does appreciate her cooking!). |
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MELEE

Joined: 22 Jan 2003 Posts: 2583 Location: The Mexican Hinterland
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Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| MO39 wrote: |
Maybe that's why I never ended up with a long-term Mexican boyfriend, always looking for one with all the qualities I like in Mexican men without the machismo. |
I've always said the key is to look for one raised by a working single mom. My husband has been washing his own clothes since he was 6 years old.
In the part of the country and the social class I move in, grown children are expected to live at home until they marry, but not so mom and dad can help them, but rather so they can help mom and dad. Unmarried grown children give their parents their entire paycheck until they leave home, the parents then dole them out an allowence, but use the rest as part of the family's maintance.
Last edited by MELEE on Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:32 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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MO39

Joined: 28 Jan 2004 Posts: 1970 Location: El ombligo de la Rep�blica Mexicana
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Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="MELEE
In the part of the country and the social class I move in, grown children are expected to live at home until they marry, but not so mom and dad can help them, but rather so they can help mom and dad. Unmarried grown children give their parents their entire paycheck until they leave home, the parents then dole them out an allowence, but use the rest as part of the family's maintance. |
That's a commendable arrangement and lots different than staying at home just so your mother can do your laundry and mend your clothes and cook for you. Do you think that indigenous cultural patterns in your corner of Oaxaca have played a factor in this custom? |
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Samantha

Joined: 25 Oct 2003 Posts: 2038 Location: Mexican Riviera
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Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:29 am Post subject: |
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Melee wrote:
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| I've always said the key is to look for one raised by a working single mom. My husband has been washing his own clothes since he was 6 years old. |
Good point. My husband was also raised by a working single mother, and assigned household duties and work from a very young age. When I met him he was sharing an apartment with another single guy. He loves to cook...I really am off the hook there. His brother and sister are equally indepdendent. His brother cooks and cleans right alongside his working wife. Sister is a working single mom with no desire to get remarried. Mama leans on them for help and not the other way around. I think she sees it that she looked after them all those years and now it's payback time. That part's a bit different than the culture I was raised in.  |
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